Ep: 235 - Boys Club Live: Roasting Tech Stacks with Julia Rosenberg (Show Me Your Stack), Met Gala Recap with Blake Finucane, Biochar and Green Energy Bitcoin with Josh Phelps (Carbon Country)

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:33] Hi. Hello. How's it going? Virtual live stream. [00:39] virtual live stream here with Jules Rosenberg. I am Dina Burke and a pleasure to be with everyone here today. Jules in San Francisco, I assume? [00:51] Yep, back home in SF after a lovely little NYC rendezvous. [00:56] How was it? What'd you get up to? It was good. We launched Show Me Your Stack last week. So honestly, mostly just... [01:05] bopping around New York telling everyone about it, which is great. I have so much I want to chat with you about. So, uh, Jules, for those who are new here is the co-host of, uh, [01:16] show me your stack which is our new boys club network show and we're gonna talk about that and episode one went out last week episode two is coming soon i want to chat with you i'll do a little teaser on that as well but how does it feel to be a media personality [01:34] Let's start with the basics. It's so funny because I obviously been working on the show for months now. And when you're in the thick of building this thing, you kind of forget about like some of the basic things. [01:49] maybe downstream acts that are going to happen. I see. [01:55] You're just going to be plastered on the internet. [01:59] Um,

[01:59] And... [02:02] I did make my first reel last week as well. It's a great reel. It's a great reel. [02:09] My sweet, sweet boyfriend was my content producer, creative director. He took on many roles. [02:19] Um... [02:20] So, yeah, we're here now. It's very, how does it feel like I have my own, I've gone through a journey with, um, [02:27] seeing my face, uh, [02:29] on a screen and on the internet and there's been times when it's been hard there's been times when it's been easy but it's definitely been like a [02:37] It's something to work through actively. And I'm curious, um, [02:41] Some people don't have anything to work through and some people refuse to do it entirely. And so I'm curious, like where you are on that spectrum. [02:49] Okay, this is a great question. I actually have no issue with it. [02:53] And like seeing myself on screen, seeing myself talk. [02:58] Besides... [02:59] When I do ad reads, I... [03:02] It's very painful. I cannot watch that. [03:08] Why? What is it about the ad read that's different from the rest of what you're doing? [03:12] I think it's just – it's not – [03:14] me and maybe i just need to write my ad reads better so that like feels more natural to me yes um but i do feel like an a formal actress which i am not and [03:26] I think I need to get used to that part. Like the scripted component to it is difficult. And I think the more I get into media, the more I realize that everything is scripted, even the most cash, silly,

[03:39] little things. Um, [03:42] so I need to be better at the teleprompter. [03:48] Okay, on that note, actually, I want to start with our first ad read from Vercel, which is also... [03:55] Sponsoring Show Me Your Sack, they've been great partners so far. Not so far. They've been great partners. We love them. If you are a startup building with agents, look no further than Vercel. Their agentic infrastructure gives you and your agents everything you need to ship. And if you're supported by one of their hundreds of VC or accelerator partners, you have access to exclusive discounts and benefits. Deploy faster, scale globally, and ship world-class AI products. [04:25] at versell.com backslash [04:27] startups. [04:29] I use Vercel. [04:31] all the time for all my funny side projects and genuinely um love the product used a lot and um i'm so honored to have them as partners for this and show me your sack it's [04:43] - Same. - So great. - I could genuinely talk about Vercel for days. [04:49] truly have used so many of their products. And I have been in the lab cooking with V0 [04:56] like nonstop the last few months. And I'm very grateful to be sponsored by them mostly because we get free credits. I know I use the free credit yesterday. And I will say we do have a couple that we have, um,

[05:10] up our sleeves. So if you're listening and you are wanting to play around with Rissell, get in touch while supplies last. I can't, I can't promise this indefinitely, but we do have some credits that I am authorized to give out. So slide into my DMs or slide into Boys Club DMs and we can... [05:30] send you some credits, um, [05:32] And you can do remarkable how far you can cook though with few credits. Like, I think I started with like $40 in credits. And I know I ate up so much compute in the 80 versions of a website that I did. And I'm like, [05:50] I still didn't even hit my limit. I love that. We love not hitting limits. Okay, I want to talk about your... [05:57] some of the things that you've been, you've been doing for sale. But before that, let's talk about, um, [06:02] Episode two. [06:03] which is coming out. [06:06] next week. Who was our guest? Okay. Our guest next week is named Farza at Farza TV on Twitter. And Farza is one of these amazing sort of build in public [06:21] serial hackers. He previously founded a company called BuildSpace, which was this interesting sort of media IRL [06:29] community project um and i think the thing that he took most from that experience was just the media training of it all almost he built out some really cool launch videos a lot of like founder first marketing um and he has very much extended that into his side projects and new project that he's working on called clicky which you've probably seen

[06:52] Somewhere on Twitter, he keeps blowing up the timeline on it. [06:56] Or Instagram. I saw he just went super viral on Instagram for for and it had like almost a million views for tech content on Instagram. [07:05] Instagram, that's reached escape velocity in a way that you rarely see. [07:11] It's amazing. And he actually talked a lot about it in our episode of like what his process is around content creation. And he has like a very strict approach. [07:20] science around it. Like, like we were sort of saying before, um, a lot of media that you see online feels very natural and unscripted, but behind the scenes, there's so much work that's [07:36] And I think he does like an amazing job in like setting himself up for success in the way that he structures his content. So a lot of cool insights, even on the content side of it, which I really like. I can't wait to watch. Okay, so that comes out next Friday. So stay tuned there. In the meantime, you have built a very fun thing in the spirit of the show, which is called... [08:01] Rate My Sack [08:03] Is your stack whack or cracked? [08:06] Talk us through what's happening here. [08:09] Okay. So throughout the show, obviously we are investigating everyone's tech stacks, which is the tools and workflows that people have on their computer. I have... [08:21] somehow become a stack expert through this process.

[08:25] Like I have obviously become a stack expert through this process. I know basically every IDE under the sun now. I know every browser that everyone's using. I know the tools. And so I thought this was a funny concept of... [08:42] Okay, here, let's take a very simple, like, [08:48] unified screenshot of everyone's computer which is the dock what you have open on your computer what are you using and are you behind the times [08:57] or is it kind of impressive? And so basically I live coded this website, is your stack, whack or cracked with V0? [09:08] And you take a screenshot of your doc, you upload it, and then this cute little AI that I trained judges that stack based on criteria I have set as the [09:20] Stack Expert, my new title. And then... [09:26] A Julesified AI roasts your stack and tells you if you are whack, mid or cracked. Okay. Okay. So I want to do it live. [09:36] I, [09:37] I'm excited for the Jules perspective on my stack. I have to figure out how to screenshot here while I'm in a live stream environment, but I think it's gonna work. I think what I love about the doc is that at first it felt unfair because... [09:54] I, I,

[09:55] I'm like, this is not a reflection. I'm so much more than my doc. [10:01] But I will say what is fair about the doc is that it does force people. [10:06] it to be something that is open on on [10:09] your [10:10] an application that's open. So it would have been easier to like, it may be that my applications list [10:18] in Finder would have been more diverse and perhaps would have reflected a more exciting version of me. But this actually is the truer representation of what [10:28] My sec actually is. [10:30] Right. No. Was that it? Was that an intentional decision? [10:33] We accept that. And I totally believe as your friend that your stack is more impressive than your doc reveals. I know. Well, let's see. It's a hard thing because it's working. It's analyzing. It's analyzing. It's cooking. [10:50] It is hard though, because a lot of applications you are accessing through the browser. So you are immediately at a loss from that. [10:56] Hmm. Oh, OK. So for people who are just listening, I got a wax sack. My score was 30. [11:09] And it seems as though what pulled me down was, um, [11:15] Finder, which I object to. [11:18] To that being whack, I use Finder all the time and it's so useful and I have some shortcuts set up. So I object there.

[11:28] Okay. And then I have a raycast or just like a search, some more advanced search. Oh, wait, say more. I don't know. I don't know about that. [11:38] So there's a bunch of other tools that you can download basically that are a more intelligent search experience of Finder that have like shortcuts and like an infinite copy paste history, things like that. Okay. What's it called? [11:54] Raycast, I believe. Well, I guess it is whack then that I'm using Finder because I didn't know [12:00] That there was even a more evolved version available for. But so you get points for building out your own skills within Finder. [12:10] Okay, great, great, great. So a couple bonus points tacked on here. I will say my other WAC app here is Calendar, which I don't use. I actually don't even know. [12:20] I love you. [12:22] Um... [12:23] I don't see it, but all that to say that I don't use calendar as an application and that would be. I agree. Okay, great. I'm so aligned. [12:32] Yeah. [12:34] There was a tough, when I was thinking about the qualitativeness, the qualitative rating on some of these is like, for example, Slack. [12:43] Is that whack, mid, or cracked, in your opinion? I think it's mid. I got some points for having Slack. It seems like you landed on it being cracked. [12:55] Which... [12:56] is compliment cracked

[12:58] parentheses, complementary. The most cracked communication form. [13:04] Uh, signal, I would say. Oh, good point. Good point. Yeah. I would say I'm message and signal. [13:11] What do you use? Just messages, some texts. [13:16] I message. [13:17] I love that. [13:19] I love that. What does your stack look like? [13:23] Should I do a little? Let's do it. [13:26] Um... [13:27] Thank you. [13:28] Actually, yeah, if you can text me, if you can drop your screenshot in Slack or iMessage, then I can put it in. [13:37] Perfect. [13:38] Thank you. [13:38] Okay, let me actually want to take a screenshot of this because I'm going to tweet this. [13:43] Thank you. [13:44] And I am happy that I had my terminal up because that does make me look like a real... [13:50] Thank you. [13:50] Dev. Huge points. [13:52] Total points, total points for that. You get a lot of points for that. [13:57] And also you had Cloud Code open, or you had Cloud the desktop app open. Yeah. [14:03] Yeah, constant. That's a constant... [14:05] She's a constant figure in my life at this point. [14:09] Okay. Um, [14:11] Claude Code. [14:12] I do, yeah. [14:14] Oh, through terminal? [14:16] Yeah, I don't cloud code through terminal code. [14:20] But I'm cloud coding. Sometimes I have to pop into terminal for various things. [14:25] but you're cloud coding through the cloud desktop app. Yeah.

[14:29] I know the more cracks version is people who use cloud code in terminal, but I'm not there yet. [14:34] But see, even that nuance is huge. [14:37] Right. Because a lot of people are just in the cloud app [14:40] straight chatting. There's not much else happening there. So again, [14:44] I think we boost your score to like, [14:47] I think you get at least like 20 to 30 more points for what you do. Thank you. Thank you. Some bonus points. I appreciate that. Okay. I'm uploading your, your doc here. Let's see. [14:58] From the stack queen. [15:00] what's the score going to reveal... [15:06] mid [15:08] She had a good talk. [15:09] That feels rigged. Okay. Tell me about what we have down here. [15:14] Okay. [15:15] I think that I'm getting additional points for Figma, which... [15:20] Figma has been a hot topic recently since Claude... [15:25] came out with some very [15:27] very impressive design tools, people have sort of been coming at Figma. [15:33] It's still like the go-to thing. [15:36] uh, [15:37] design app. So if you are still... [15:42] making things yourself and Figma, I think you get points for that rather than just AI slop generation. [15:47] Mm-hmm. [15:48] I think one password you get. Anyone who was using a password manager, you get notes. The amount of people who are still using their [15:57] their 12th grade pass password eliminated. Mm hmm. Totally, totally.

[16:06] I totally agree. [16:10] I also think that notes, [16:12] This was a bias. This was a Jules bias. I think the Notes app is extremely correct. [16:17] Okay, say more. [16:20] I think it sort of falls into this like bell curve meme of that the midwits are using all these like extreme... [16:28] like Evernote that's like connected to their Twitter feed, that's connected to all these things. And then on either end of the midwit, [16:38] bell curve is Apple notes. [16:41] It's just the simplest thing. Like here's, here's a lesson that I take from Apple notes, which I, um, I think is an important lesson and can sometimes be a hard one when, when, [16:51] So you're in an organization, when you're working on a team, when you join a company, they're always like, here's our list of productivity tools that we use, the Trellos, the blah, blah, blah, the notion, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. [17:04] At first, that can be really exciting because you're like, oh, this is going to solve all my problems because all the reasons that my my team or my project or me, the reason I'm underperforming is because I have all these issues with my workflow and or with my note taking it. And. [17:22] My experience is, and I hate Notion for the record. Like, I absolutely cannot stand it. That's what I'm saying. [17:30] Every time someone tries to get me to use it, I'm like, I'm so sorry, but that's not going to happen.

[17:36] It's what? [17:37] A doc's junkyard. [17:39] Yeah, totally. Totally. And then I think [17:42] What you quickly become present to is how... [17:47] 95% of... [17:49] a productivity act [17:52] of a productivity app working and it feeling like magic is someone routinely going back to it and using it and like actually using it is, [18:02] is so much of the work and so much of where it does work. And I feel like notes app speaks to the reason why [18:11] it's so great and I use it all the time is because I use it all the time and it's there and it's easy to access and like I'm constantly in it and like it's very active. And I feel like that is a lesson out there for folks who are [18:25] trying to build like to do apps and stuff like that. It's like, it's so fun and shiny at first. [18:30] but you never go back to it. And so then it's useless. [18:33] So the TLDR of what you just said is the more you nurture it, [18:39] the better it grows. [18:41] There it is. So that's our notes. I love letters and notes app. [18:46] You have... [18:48] I can't see what else you have in your stack here. Wait, click on the detailed section. [18:53] Let's see what the roast is. [18:56] Thank you. [18:57] at the oh i missed this in my last one okay this doc screams my creativity peaked in college figma that's cute but lacking ai dreams oh no no fair rose that's totally fair

[19:13] Oh, Slack, congratulations. You're officially a corporate drone. True more words. [19:18] Sure words. I love this. I think the algorithm needs a little bit of tweaking based on our conversation today. [19:27] Thank you. [19:29] Yeah, I. [19:30] I feel like there could maybe be a way to – [19:33] to score some bonus points. [19:37] Yeah, post assignment. [19:39] I agree. [19:40] I think you should be able to also contest your score. Yeah, I think so, too. Okay, well, Jules, always a pleasure to chat. I'm going to drop the link for anyone. You guys should all be roasting or rather rating your own sacks. I want to see everyone's sack. [19:57] selfishly. So we're going to drop this in the chat and I'll put it up on Twitter. Please tag me and Jules in all your stacks so we can... [20:07] Thank you. [20:08] So that we can roast. [20:09] Real-time, real-time roasts. [20:11] Put yourself out there. Time to get roasted. Totally. [20:16] Jules. [20:17] so fun and we'll see you soon [20:21] Thanks for having me. Okay. Talk soon. [20:23] Bye. [20:25] And [20:27] Kate. [20:28] Hi. Hi. How you doing? How's my mic? Mic check, mic check. It took me forever to find these wired headphones. I have so many. Yeah, it sounds... [20:37] Sounds fine. So go, go one more time. [20:40] Test, test, test, test. Yeah. A little clicky.

[20:44] A little clicky. It's because the wire is like hanging straight over my keyboard. So I keep having to. [20:51] swipe it to the side. No worries. It's nice to see you. Jules is just the best. Before we bring Blake on to do a little Met Gala recap, I am going to... [21:05] Do a quick shout out. [21:07] to Octant. [21:09] We love Octant. We love Octant. [21:13] We have a QR code for you to scan if you want to learn more. [21:18] Check them out. They have a creator program that is going to be launching soon. And I encourage everyone who is a creator or content creator to check that out and apply. So our supporting sponsor, Octin, is well known in Ethereum circles for its tireless contribution to the Ethereum ecosystem through research and millions of dollars in grants and public goods funding. [21:41] 2026 is their product era. Octant previously launched DeFi Vaults, which enable orgs and communities to build sustainable funding systems through these yield generating products. And they've also opened up funding participation to the wider Ethereum community. You can help decide which impactful projects in Ethereum should get funded through using your ETH to help allocate a big pool of matching funds by participating in their EPIC 12 next month. [22:11] industry, be sure to check out at Okten app to keep up with all their latest funding announcements. And don't forget to lock ETH to help allocate over 300 ETH to projects such as Protocol Guild, Tor Project, and Revoke, to name a few. Again, if you're a content creator or journalist in crypto, their next creator cohort is forming. We're going to drop the link in the chat to- Links in the chat. Links in the chat. Links in the chat. And also, I did put it in today's newsletter. So if you are a newsletter

[22:41] She should be a newsletter subscriber because we got stuff like that all the time. [22:45] So subscribe if you know. Please subscribe. Please subscribe is kind of a weird way to say subscribe. Subscribe. Thank you so much. I do want to say, Kate, Kate, you have been encouraging me to do more. [23:01] Um, [23:02] promotion of the newsletter and personal brand promotion. We need it from the author's POV. People need to know that it's your... [23:11] beautiful brain behind that newsletter. Everyone loves it so much. [23:16] That's so kind. And I do think that that's a fair note that the writer needs to be. [23:23] needs to be getting themselves out there. So I'm going to be getting myself... [23:26] myself out there more. I think this is my... [23:29] I'm coming out and I'm saying it. [23:31] I love it. I will always encourage it. You got to climb a mountain to get to Viral Valley. You're the best at that. Okay, let's talk Met Gala because I know we have a lot that we want to chat about. [23:43] beautiful blake up on stage here blake hi oh okay i was wondering about my background and it's a look and well wait we're gonna adjust um here we go let's see very already very already background i know i know as is yours though in the best way um i actually wanted to get both of your opinions i have um [24:09] I think what I'm going to do, this is so boring for probably everyone, but I think I've been watching. OK, so I'm really addicted to this history podcast where it's these two older British guys and it's called The Rest is History. And I've talked about it every basically every single episode that we've had in the past couple weeks whenever I'm on. And anyway, I've been studying their history.

[24:30] backgrounds, they're very professional podcasters, they both have bookcases in their backgrounds. [24:36] It's all about the bookcase. It's all about the bookcase. And the curated bookcase. [24:41] Yes. So I've been on Facebook Marketplace. I have a couple of bookcase options. I might be sending you some links. Send me pics. I will. I will say that like they're historians, though. So like books and a bookcase does land in that context. And I just don't know, like, I certainly am. [25:01] Like, you know, I just don't know for our category what's the best – [25:04] The Bitcoin standard. [25:06] Yeah, it's the white paper. [25:12] That would hit. Yeah. You should do it. [25:15] Anyway, that's an aside. Blake, welcome to the show. If you don't know Blake, she is the best and she is an art historian and also an expert on crypto and digital technology and NFT and art and how those two worlds combine and is doing incredible work on TikTok lately. Well, always, but lately it's been amazing. [25:36] Lately, finally, people are seeing it. Exactly, exactly. And I am starting to appreciate... [25:43] your wisdom and takes, which I'm so happy to see. And like, we've had a few viral hits. And like, I'm just every time I see it, I'm like, man, I love it. [25:52] I love it. I'm so happy for you. [25:54] Thank you. It's crazy that, um, [25:57] it's it's this that people are that that's taking off so I guess we run with it you know it's not crazy at all this is your lane this is your lane yeah

[26:06] Totally. So the reason they're knowledgeable on fashion, very knowledgeable on art, I'm [26:12] Come on. It's it's perfect. OK, so take it away. Tell us about what you've been reporting on. And we have an incredible visual on stage here, too. I know, Kate, we want to do some ranking of the Met Gala, but give us first an overview of what's been happening. [26:26] Yeah, I mean, I guess what's fascinating to me is like, [26:30] How I would describe generally this Met Gala is it's been like a PR crisis, both for the Met and for Vogue. [26:38] Obviously, we all know. [26:40] Bezos and his wife, Lauren Sanchez Bezos, are sponsoring it. There she is. And when Donnie came out a couple of weeks ago, said he's not going to attend. [26:53] There's been protests. Again, I don't know if, you know, Kate, in New York, you've seen these protests. [27:00] Posters that are on the... [27:02] on the screen right now, but from... [27:05] God, [27:06] No. [27:07] Well, I don't leave my apartment. Fair enough. He's grinding all day. So she's not seeing it. But you know what? I am because I'm just on my phone. So I've been seeing it. People are putting posters up all over. They're really focused on... [27:22] his ties to ICE and Amazon's ties to ICE, as well as Amazon worker conditions. [27:28] really highlighting that. What's also been fascinating is the CEO of The Met, the head of the Costume Institute, Andrew Bolton, they both came out basically on the day of The Met in very high profile publications, CNN, The New York Times saying like basically actively distancing themselves

[27:47] from [27:48] The Bezos... [27:49] couple. So Anna Wintour came out on the like the first moment of the live stream basically reiterating this creates jobs. This is an economic boon for New York City. So really, I'm sure the crisis management people are having like the best days of their lives like this is perfect for them. So [28:09] It's been really fascinating to see even just like all my TikToks and on YouTube shorts, like... [28:16] People have a lot to say about Bezos in a way that I've never seen the comments before. Have you been getting like hateful comments on your posts because you've been covering the Met Gala? [28:29] I've never seen them. [28:30] She responds like a queen. I do respond a lot because... And I'm... [28:36] Thank you. [28:36] You know who I'm going to bring up? Gary Vee says you have to respond to most comments. Boom. There we go. Shout out, Gary Vee. And I know that I was the guest on your first ever podcast, and they brought him up. So it's beautiful. It's a full circle. And I'm sorry to derail, and Gary will get – I just – [28:52] that is what he told me to do. If Gary says to do it, then I got to do it. And so yeah, I've been getting it's more it's not really to me. Although some people are like, you know, nothing can be interesting and nothing can be radical if it's at this Met Gala. So critiquing some of the fashion choices. Oh, this is an interesting point. Oh, this is powerful. Some

[29:17] nothing's powerful in this context because I see more so and then just like eat the rich kind of thing is what a lot of the sentiment is. [29:27] Thank you. [29:27] I see. And, uh, [29:30] that as the background. [29:32] And then the actual Met Gala itself. So the theme... [29:36] Tell us about the theme and then how it relates to what we're going to be seeing. [29:41] Mm-hmm. [29:41] Yeah, so basically the theme in terms of the actual Met Gala was fashion as art, and then the actual... [29:50] show itself is about how fashion interacts with the body. So they were kind of like, [29:56] a little bit, [29:57] There was some, like, dissonance around it, like some asymmetry. So also people were in my comments being like, well, this isn't about the body. This is just about art. No one knows the theme. And I'm obviously... [30:09] emphasis my own with those accents that I just did. But because people always confuse the theme versus the dress code and the theme was costume art and the dress code was fashion is art and that pertained to the body. [30:25] and how it's to you personally. [30:28] Can you tell me about the difference between the two? [30:31] Thank you. [30:32] I just I basically saw it as like Kate jumped in. I basically saw it like I read it like, OK, [30:39] make fashion art, so to speak, like reference art. I mean, we're at the Met Gala. That's why I loved a lot of the pieces that they were actually referencing pieces [30:47] inside the Met. So I really, really appreciated that versus the actual

[30:54] exhibition itself, which was more, there was a whole section on differing abilities and different types of bodies that might not be, you know... [31:06] like, [31:07] fully able bodies, things like that. So there was more like, [31:12] It was more, I guess, in relation to the body and how it interacts. When I saw the actual theme is just like, [31:18] how does it reference art? We're at the Met Gala. This is like the most important art gallery in the world, you know? [31:23] Yeah, I can even read [31:25] on the Mets Museum. On the Mets... [31:29] website. [31:30] It breaks it all down. [31:31] And so it says the gala dress code will be fashion is art, inviting guests to express their own relationship to fashion as an embodied art form and celebrate the countless depictions of the dress body throughout art history. [31:43] And so it's like, [31:45] how it pertains to you, how it pertains to the shape, your body or your self. [31:51] So, and then it's interpretation from there. [31:55] As we've seen in the looks. Yeah, we sure have. [32:00] And then, so if we're ranking these, [32:03] I would say [32:05] S tier is fully understood the assignment and put effort. [32:09] into that [32:11] That's how I view it. Now you tell me if you have a different grading system, because sure, you could be on theme, but if it feels like lazy, you know, [32:19] then I'm not about it. [32:21] So I'm like S tier, top tier is...

[32:25] You understood the assignment. You followed the dress code. You played with the theme and you put a lot of effort into it. [32:34] 100% way. Then like F tier at the bottom, you failed, is you just threw on a look that maybe... [32:41] followed the dress code or didn't but you're like okay what is this you gave us nothing [32:47] I totally agree. And it's like, I think you have to start with the theme and go backwards versus start with the dress, start with the look and be like, how can I make this fit the theme? [32:57] Exactly. So many people make that mistake. [32:59] Wow, we should be stylists. I mean, and I wore this camel hoodie for you as well, Kate. [33:06] And I wore my fur wrestling tee for you. Yeah. [33:09] I love that. Okay, so let's actually rank these looks. Who do we got here? And let's let it rip. I genuinely... [33:18] This is an example I gave. We're going to start off with what I see as an example is a SEER. [33:24] And then what I see example is F tier, just so you know the range. [33:27] So in my mind, Emma Chamberlain, who we see here for the listener, is wearing a custom Mugler, like, [33:35] paint, physically painted on dress. They painted this dress. Obviously, it took a couple days to, like, set and... [33:43] you know, make breathable, but [33:45] It is gorgeous. You can see the physical brushstrokes on the dress, the fabric at the top. [33:51] um like all the way across and it has like tassels on the sleeves that are also like

[33:56] ombre paint down and there's a bunch of beautiful colors so i don't know if blake you want to add some if there's some hundred history to it [34:05] Yeah, I mean, I know that it's referencing Van Gogh, particularly Starry Night, and then like some of his paintings around the wheat field. So basically just his brushstrokes. But yeah, I think this is, I really think Emma Chamberlain... [34:17] rarely misses. She has some of the best taste and like styling. [34:23] out there so this is perfect and it's like exactly in line to me with what she always does [34:29] Gorgeous. [34:30] Now this, [34:32] Oh, oh, oh. [34:34] I have a laugh. What? [34:35] cool. [34:37] Oh, there it is. Okay, it's showing up for me. Yeah. [34:39] Zach Posen? Is that... Oh, yeah. Yeah. [34:42] Zach Rosen, who is the creative director. Sorry, my guy. [34:45] Thank you. [34:47] Sorry, he missed for me. [34:50] It's. [34:50] He showed up in... [34:52] what looks like he's going to Dime Square. And it's just, I don't know, it looks like black jeans and a denim jacket that has some like metallic vibes to it. [35:01] He looks like he's about to sing a country song on stage. I like the outfit, but for the Met, it just fell flat for me. Now I could be losing all the context in the world. I don't know. [35:13] what the reference is, Blake, please enlighten me. [35:17] I also have no idea what the reference is. And, like, I love Zach Poston so much. What he's done with Gap. He's the creative director of Gap and Old Navy. He's completely revamped that brand. I even think... Oh, he's definitely wearing...

[35:31] Wearing Gap. Yeah. He's wearing Gap. He's talking. But but Kendall Jenner is that was the Gap person this year and she absolutely nailed it. And that's Zach doing that. So I don't know. I mean, my only thought is maybe it was an afterthought because he was focused on. [35:49] the star and dressing them [35:51] But this was and that gap as well could have done so much with this look like this is such incredible PR and promotion for them. So, yes, and I love them. And yeah, I don't know what was happening here. [36:03] So sorry, putting him in an F tier here, but [36:06] I wish I had an example of Jimmy Butler. I forgot to pull that image, but he wore like an aloe suit, like what looks like a tux almost. And it was aloe. And that's so funny to me. I'm like, great. Perfect. Did I love the suit itself? Not necessarily, but what a great brand for me. [36:25] a moment for a brand to stand out. [36:29] Okay, here we go. We're going to rapid fire some of these. You can give some context to Madonna's look. [36:35] I think this is... [36:37] Whatever you think of Madonna, I mean, this is absolutely S tier. She 100% nailed this. I was not ready to tell you that Madonna was one of my favorite looks at the Met Gala, but here we are. She referenced Lenora Carrington, who was a surrealist painter, really, really always overshadowed by like, [36:55] Dali, Picasso, all the big heavy hitters, and now she's actually the highest selling

[37:02] surrealist painter of all time and beat [37:04] all her male peers at that time so that's very exciting i love this look she absolutely nailed it it's also like madonna so like it's perfect very yeah [37:14] Great stuff. I would also put it in S tier just for creativity. [37:18] Okay, how do we feel about this one? You want to give the arch reference? [37:22] or just give a description for the listeners. [37:25] Yeah, so this is [37:28] This is Victory. I believe this is in the Louvre. I have many photos with this. This is in the Louvre. I saw her recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is a Greek statue. Yeah. [37:40] I think it's, you know, it makes sense. [37:44] She nailed the beat. [37:45] I have zero fashion or art credibility to be able to speak into this conversation, really, so just wading in here. But I will say my criticism on this is that it's not closely enough of a – [37:57] It's too abstract of a reference. She has a wing character. [38:01] on her, [38:02] dress. [38:03] So it's a stretch for me personally. [38:07] That's fair. [38:09] So where are you ranking it? [38:13] Blake. [38:13] I would do like, I mean, you know, I skew more towards, you know, [38:18] higher rankings. You know what I mean? And like, I also understand we're talking about like literally the most beautiful, perfect women like in the history of the world. So like all these women are literally the most stunning human beings I've ever seen. I would rank it AB, you know, B plus.

[38:35] Okay, I'd give it a B plus two. [38:38] Yeah. [38:38] Nice. That's fair. [38:41] So [38:42] This is my favorite of the entire series. [38:46] show. This is Amy Sherald, who's one of the most important American painters working today. She came as her own painting. I don't think you can get more iconic than this. I don't think that, you know, no one can do this because no one, there's very few people in the world who are the most important artists working today. So she did something only she could do. And just for those who may recognize the kind of style, she painted Michelle Obama's official portrait, [39:16] where you might have come across her if you're not super in the art world. So this is my favorite look because it's unique and no one else could do it. And fashion is art. She made herself the subject. She is the artwork. She creates the artwork. I don't think there's anything better than this. [39:34] Esther. [39:35] S tier, absolutely. We lost Kate for a second, but can you speak more to some of the other work that she's done? [39:42] Yeah, so basically what she does is she takes subjects, so she always does like skin in this like muted gray and then surrounds everything else with color. This piece is very classical of her style. And she's very classic. [40:00] She really, like... [40:02] I would say takes a [40:04] normal person, so to speak, and just elevates them to, like, they are the most important thing in the entire world. She honors them. They're always so beautifully done.

[40:18] I just think the focus on humanity is incredible. I truly think like, [40:25] like she is so so so incredible um if you haven't seen the michelle obama portrait it's amazing um and uh she always focus on focuses on black subjects um oftentimes like in her community or or you know these are always like real people so um there's just like such a humanness to it yeah so i i really love her for that the other person i would bring up in terms of making [40:55] is Venus Williams, who I love and have loved forever since she stepped on the court. She made herself the subject as well, and she dressed as her portrait in the National Portrait Gallery. [41:10] Oh, that's what it was. [41:12] I'm trying to find her, um, image. This little, um, necklace was based on the Wimbledon trophy, which of course she has won. I was like, no one else could do that either. And like, and she's also a tall, you know, she's over six feet and, you know, I love a woman that's over six feet. So, um... [41:30] I loved her look as well for that. Again, there's no one else that could do that because... [41:40] She's like, tell me another person that's a Wimbledon, but well, besides her sister, who was also there. This is a reference to her official portrait at the gallery. So gorgeous.

[41:50] love that too because no one else could do that and literally the body is art because like she is the artwork so yeah there you go [41:59] There it is. - Yep. [42:00] There is this one that you made the reference to that people were – [42:04] People were clowning. [42:06] People were clowning saying, "Oh girl, you missed the assignment." And you're like, "Do you not understand?" Now, the shape of the dress could be said for something because this could have been done in a totally different gown. [42:19] But... [42:20] So that's where my critique lies. [42:23] Yeah. And I mean, it does look kind of off the rack. You know what I mean? It looks like we could go to a store and buy this like right now. So who is this? And sorry, just for the listener. [42:34] So this is a reference to a Hungarian artist who's the father of op art, like optical illusion, like optical art. And what we're looking at are a bunch of circles and squares and her dress. Who is that? [42:52] I can't see. Vassarelli is the artist. The dress. Who is the dress? I did a video on this. I should know. [42:58] You sure did. You should have took notes. And I really did. I do have, I'll get it up. [43:05] But basically what I think, like, I think this is, like, a wild risk because, like, doing, like, an optical dress, there's so much, like, more, of course, that you could have done. Like, you could have done, like, 3D stuff or it could have been. I love the reference because it's such, like, a wild niche reference to do, like, a Hungarian French, like, fashion.

[43:24] artists from the 60s that like very few people know about um but the execution was tough [43:31] - Right, and this is when in my ranking system, [43:34] I'm going to give it a D only because you followed theme, but it feels like you didn't put much effort into it. [43:41] making it super creative. [43:43] the execution like you said just isn't there for me [43:46] Didn't stake the landing. [43:48] Right. [43:49] And I would give it like a C plus. [43:53] Fair. Okay. I don't know how much time we have, Dina. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. This is fascinating. I want to run through them. [44:00] Okay, here we have beautiful gown, like mermaid style. And we have like, for someone who has no art context or anything, it's just what looks like metal robot hands in different areas of the dress, like cupping the hip, cupping the like lower thigh, cupping the shoulders or clavicle. And they had movement to them as well, these like silver robot hands. [44:26] And so now I'll pass off to Blake for the art reference. [44:29] Which is crazy. There was a lot of hands going on. There was, like, a lot of, like, cupping of things, you know, with the whole time. That was, like, a theme. But, yes, this is, I would say, one of the most iconic things. [44:42] images in all of Western art. [44:44] This is on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, the creation of man by Michelangelo. [44:51] So again, I'm like, [44:54] and

[44:55] To me, the dress was like cool. And then they kind of were just like, what can we do with hands? And then they made it this. I don't know if it's like, so I think the dress is unreal. And like the robotic. [45:07] aspects of it do I think that it's like a very literal translation I'm not too sure um but I love the dress so [45:15] And it's unique and different, and obviously the robot aspect, you know. [45:20] I mean, just a minor quibble from me, but, like, I would have put the hands, like, at least directionally. Exactly. Like, give me a shoulder strap that's like this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [45:34] Come on. Yeah, just a quick... [45:38] Yeah, so I think this reference was a stretch. I think they just got the dress and were like, oh, what can we kind of like make this like? There you go. [45:46] That's what it was. [45:48] Alright, we'll do some coupled rapid fire moments. [45:53] Okay, here we're showing Kim Kardashian looking like iPhone 17. [45:58] She's in like a corset. [46:01] Very cyber corset, um, [46:05] But no pants. No pants look. And she has, like, a train behind her. This image doesn't really show it. But it's just... [46:11] Orange. [46:13] And I'm not sure what the references as far as art next to her. We have two images on the screen now. Then we have Lauren Sanchez. [46:23] who was honorary co-chair

[46:26] looking like she got her dress on Amazon [46:30] just very off the rack ball gown, mother-in-law at the wedding. [46:35] So Blake, take it away. [46:37] Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. Listen, I'm a Kim. I'm actually like I've got I'm wearing like I have my full sweatsuit on all the times my skin sweatsuit. So I'm a huge fan. [46:51] Kim Phan, this, yeah, wasn't it for me. I always expect a lot from her. She's referencing, so she actually like flew, there's like a 60s pop artist, Peter Allen, Allen Jones, Allen Jones, who... [47:09] is famous for these bodysuits and basically they like grafted this is a like an original model from the 60s [47:15] and they fit it on her. What I like is that, like, [47:19] the artist, like, came out and she, like, worked for the artist, like, worked with the artist directly around this. That's cool. Do I think that, like, she said in the interview, like, my favorite artist, like, [47:30] Alan Jones, I'm like, I just, I'm not sure about that, my sweet kid. [47:34] You know, and then Lauren Sanchez, obviously, like she worked with Law Roach and like Law is so famous for doing like biographical styling or like very like referential styling. So I was really surprised that he chose this. Obviously, like Lauren bought out Schiaparelli. There was no one else wearing Schiaparelli at the entire Met. And this is actually referenced to a John Singer Sargent painting that's in the Met, which I do love.

[47:59] unfortunately. And basically, it's called Madame X. It's about like a woman scorned. So there was like this biographical reading, I think, like for most people, it fell flat. [48:12] Because it's like, I mean, you know, if you're worth hundreds of billions of dollars, like... [48:20] a woman scorned is not like an interesting thing that most people want to talk about so i'm not sure i want to pause here because i did not know that this was a direct reference to this painting well i didn't know this painting so now i know both those things yeah and i will say like it's pretty um once we showed on screen [48:39] here, it, [48:41] It's a pretty... [48:42] Tight. [48:44] Yes. [48:45] It really is. [48:47] It really is. [48:48] Basically, she didn't wear it like the painting, though. No, she didn't. Fit it to where it falls the same way. [48:57] Mm-hmm. [48:58] That's why you can't see the reference because you're not fitting the dress to even see the reference. [49:05] Yeah. And I mean, it's like, you know, this was like a scandal at the time because it was so like the skin was showing in such an extreme way and the woman's like sexuality was on display. [49:18] um obviously yeah look at it offensive you know barely you know but like yeah that's good [49:26] That's good context. It is good context. Because she's letting it hang out. She's like, hey, you're the girl.

[49:31] She loves one single silhouette and it's a deep V. And listen, I love a deep V too. You know what I mean? So I respect the commitment to it. Obviously, yeah, that's her one silhouette. She loves it. She sticks with it. And so I was just like really surprised that she, that it was like beautiful. [49:51] very muted and toned down with that reference. I get in the context of how [49:57] the backlash and everything, this might have actually been the best choice. And to do something more crazy actually could have resulted in a bigger issue. [50:06] So in a lot of ways, I'm like, oh, yeah, it's better that she got, like, scorned for – [50:12] doing something too simple and basic versus doing something too over the top, considering what was happening. [50:17] That's totally fair. [50:19] You know what? Great. [50:20] Great thought there. [50:21] Mm-hmm. [50:22] You're like, I'd rather not be in the limelight because I'm in the limelight. [50:27] Now, was that intentional? I don't know. But I think like when I think of like how La Roche does it, I'm like... [50:34] He's the best at what he does, like, ever. So... [50:39] I feel like this in a lot of ways was like a good choice because people are like, it's just like so bad. And it's like, that's all you can really say about it as opposed to like that. It's, [50:49] Thank you. [50:50] Yeah. Okay, so where are you ranking them? I'm giving Kim K iPhone 17 a... [50:58] see because I do like how she actually worked with an artist who sculpted it. There's like a cool reference. I do think the color looks great on her with her spray tan and the blonde hair, but hey.

[51:10] Like it just doesn't. [51:11] It doesn't wow me. [51:13] Yeah, I think I wanted, I always want the biggest and the best from Kim. So yeah, I would give this like a C plus. [51:20] Okay. You're adding the pluses. I know. I know. And then what? [51:25] Then I'm going to rank... [51:28] Miss Sanchez over here, [51:30] with [51:32] I'm giving her a D. I just feel like all she did was reference the art. I'm like... [51:36] It's giving me nothing, but maybe strategic. [51:40] Yeah, I think it was. I mean, [51:42] Maybe I'm giving too much credit, but it's like, we're dealing with the Bezos here. I think we can give them all the credit in the world for what they've done. So, like, you know, I would say... [51:50] I don't want to say a C plus again. So I'll say a C minus C minus. Yeah. I mean, it's like, [51:59] I think it's inoffensive at, like... [52:01] in a way that like she's never like she's people find her very offensive so wow that is exactly how i want everyone to describe my outfits inoffensive yeah yeah yeah so okay [52:15] Next we have here... [52:18] a reference to some pop art with Rachel, what is her last name? [52:23] Thank you. [52:26] Everyone said that this looks like that abandoned 80s lamp in a thrift shop. [52:32] And I'm like, nice, perfect. And then we have the actors from... [52:38] He did rivalry. Thank you. Um, standing side by side and, um,

[52:44] The, I don't know the characters' names or the actors' names. [52:48] Hudson [52:50] Connor. So Hudson and Connor. Yeah. Okay. So is Connor the blonde? [52:54] Connor the blonde is wearing a polka dot sleeveless high neck shirt. [52:59] Blouse. [53:01] looking like rich auntie. [53:05] But muscles are popping. And then just playing black. Greek god muscles. Greek god muscles. Yes, exactly. I don't know if there's any other further reference with the polka dot blouse. [53:15] Not that I know of. Okay. Just the arms are like, hey, that looks like a party from Marvel. Looking like a proud mama next to... [53:22] Next to not Connor. Hudson. Hudson. Thank you. And I love the blue and black embroidery happening on Hudson's set. [53:31] It's a little chaotic for me, like little drummer boy. [53:34] But it's the eye makeup that everyone's talking about. [53:37] the [53:39] what is her name? [53:42] Julia [53:44] that I actually did it myself. Julia Fox. Julia Fox. Her famous I Did It My Thoughts. [53:52] She was missed at this Met Gala, I will say. We needed Julia Fox. [53:56] So Hudson's eye makeup, it looks like one blue eye, one red eye, and it's Black Swan-esque. It's Julia Fox-esque. I actually did it myself. People are comparing it to... [54:11] who's the makeup artist that had his own palette? [54:13] Back in my life.

[54:16] dirt. [54:17] Something Star. [54:19] Oh, Patrick Starr. Jeffrey Starr? Jeffrey Starr. Jeffrey Starr palette. And we're experimenting with the palette. So really, that's... [54:30] Overall, my take, I'd love to hear your takes and then we'll rank it real quick. And I think this this is the last one. [54:37] I mean, I will say that Rachel Sennett is like very Marc Jacobs to me. He's like always inspired by the 80s. [54:46] Yeah, it's not the one for me, but, like, I do like that it's, like, not that... Like, I like when they're not really working, because it's, like... [54:54] that's even better kind of and then yeah I mean again sorry sirens uh [55:00] these are two of the most beautiful men in the world. And it's funny because [55:06] like, um, Hudson is a hometown boy, so we love him here, and, um, he was, like, literally waiting at, like, our local restaurant, like, eight months ago, and now he's at the Met Gala, so we do, I mean, literally, like, and the restaurant, like, if I took you to the restaurant that he worked at, you would be, like, this is great, like, it's not, it's not the hot spot, I'll tell you that, um, so, [55:30] I'm just like, wow, like he has really climbed the ranks and like he's doing whatever he's doing. I'm not quite sure. But like, go off King, you know. Is there any specific art references for these two that you're aware of, Blake? Not that I know of. The blue is giving something. I'm not sure what. But it's seeming like it's reaching. I just don't know what it's reaching for. In what direction?

[56:00] Exactly. Fair enough. So I'm gonna give [56:06] Rachel's [56:07] Marc Jacobs look because I love that she just did something fun. Yeah, me too. Super fun. I'll get it. Honestly, I'll go B+. [56:17] Because it's not like me, but it's funny. [56:20] I'll go A. [56:21] Yeah. [56:22] Let's do it. And I love Marc Jacobs. [56:24] Yeah, same. [56:26] Yeah, yeah. Okay, now for the polka dot blouse look, [56:31] I'm sorry, put that in anyone without jacked arms. It's not doing it for me. But hey, that's the point of dressing. You're dressing for the body. And this one is, I'm going to give it a C. [56:43] Okay. [56:44] And I give it a B plus. Okay. Because there's very few people that could pull that off, and he's nailing it. That's totally fair. Okay. [56:53] Um, whereas, um, [56:55] Hudson's look, it's [56:58] It's not doing it for me at all in any way. I do appreciate that he had fun with it. It looks it. [57:05] But it's going an F. [57:07] for me. Oh, [57:08] And I just... I have to give him an A, because he's... [57:15] really made it big. [57:18] Blake grades on the curve. Blake's giving him the Vancouver bump for. Yeah, exactly. He just, he's such a sweetie. Extra credit for being so great. [57:29] So,

[57:30] But yeah, that's my own criteria that I've thrown out anything else. He's getting an A for me. [57:38] Okay. [57:39] No worries. We have some loose images. If we have some loose images here, just a couple... [57:46] Um, [57:47] here, wait, oh no, we have [57:49] Hold on, sorry. [57:50] One more. [57:52] Ooh, fine. Okay. Describing these for the listener on the left-hand side, I'm going to say, [57:59] We have, I don't know who, I can't see who these people are. She's a big K-pop. She's in. Oh, is that Rose? Black Pink. [58:07] Black people? No, it's the one in White Lotus. [58:10] Didn't watch. Okay, anyway, K-pop star, actress, maybe more other things in an all-white... [58:18] sheer [58:21] Also looks mermaid with a train, but the whole, it has extra arms, it looks like, that's holding up a big veil that's almost umbrella-ing over her and continuing a train. So it feels very bridal in like a funky, scary way. I don't know the art reference. I'm sure you do. [58:40] And then on the right-hand side, we have like a sequence, A-line, a high-neck sleeveless dress that looks like the sequences are in different sizes. [58:49] almost like [58:50] bright primary colors with some splashes of green, and it's a body. It's like the sequences are shaping a nude body. [59:00] So.

[59:01] Yeah, I don't know the art reference to the white dress, but I love it, and there has to be one, or else I would be crazy. But I love both of these, and then the one on the right – [59:18] This, to me, it's... [59:20] I don't know if there's a specific one, but it kind of, again, is giving like, [59:25] a very traditional like renaissance painting body with like the primary colors of like a Mondrian painting. I love both of them and I think they like [59:36] also obviously like look beyond gorgeous but also like are hitting the themes and like [59:43] like really nailing it. So both of these to me are Ss. [59:47] Yeah, I would put these an S just because it's giving tried. And even though this more simple A-line look is, [59:56] isn't going over the top, it, you can tell there's a lot of artistry put into the dress itself. And even on the bottom train with like the tassels and how clearly the materials are like shifting and cascading. Yeah. Very, very like also the hair and makeup, [1:00:14] For both looks. Yeah. [1:00:16] It feels very intentional and thoughtful, and I would give both of these S. [1:00:23] Fun. I wish I knew the exact art references if there were one, but... [1:00:27] Even without that, I'm like, [1:00:29] They tried and it looks great. [1:00:31] Mm-hmm.

[1:00:33] You're going to ask for both. [1:00:35] As for both, yeah. Dina, any input? Oh, I was just trying to look up what the art references were. [1:00:42] I couldn't find – I was just on the one on the left. I couldn't find it. So fun. I love the little structural thing that's happening. [1:00:50] I'm both are absolutely an S and I don't know what, um, again, like the art for the woman on the right, but she looks absolutely amazing. [1:00:59] phenomenal, incredible, phenomenal. So yeah, it's terrifying. [1:01:04] Lisa from Blackpink. [1:01:06] There you go. Okay. [1:01:09] Wow. Well, and that's our ranking. So if you disagree, comment down below. And if you agree, then you're right. [1:01:21] Totally. And I do want to say you should go to please drop in Blake's TikTok into the chat here, too. And we'll put it in the comment thread. You have done such an expert job at walking through the art references to these and more of the Met Gala looks. And honestly, I learned so much about art. I'm learning about art. I'm seeing cool fashion. It's has a celebrity tie in for folks that like that, too. So like it really hits a lot of bases. It's so fun. [1:01:49] expert and informed and I think that people will have a good time and also learn a lot so I really recommend you go [1:01:57] See Blake's stuff, follow her on TikTok, and get involved. [1:02:01] Thank you so much. Amazing. We'll see you next time.

[1:02:06] um Blake I'm gonna uh I'm gonna keep you on for one sec we're just gonna do a quick shout out here to our third sponsor before we get into our uh interview with Josh which I didn't chat about at all but excited to have you're gonna have to do some lead up because I'm gonna do some lead up yep yep I'm gonna do some lead up so yeah okay let's do that so Josh is um let's do the let's [1:02:36] and that team. So every company moving money globally hits the same walls. Legacy rails are slow, expensive, and built for a pre-internet world. Stablecoin rails are fast, but they're fragmented across vendors that don't talk to each other. The plumbing to deliver on the promise of stablecoins hasn't existed. Polygon's open money stack is fixing that. One unified stack that puts global money movement onto proven rails that move at the speed of the internet. And why Polygon? [1:03:06] You learn more and we love you, Polygon. Thank you so much for supporting this show. And yes, next up, we're going to have an interview with Josh Phelps, who is a longtime friend of the pod. [1:03:21] And he is doing a crazy thing down in Maryland. It's called Carbon Country. You're going to hear all about it. But basically, it's Bitcoin mining. It's solar. It's this. [1:03:33] They're grazing sheep. They're burying timber underground to...

[1:03:39] capture carbon. It's crazy stuff. It's, um, [1:03:44] So fun and so experimental, but like with big ambitions to really ultimately help farms and small family farms, which is a cause near and dear to my heart as well. So great chat with Josh. And thank you so much for sticking around and for hanging out with us. [1:04:03] . [1:04:06] Josh Phelps is the co-founder of Carbon Country, a 75-acre operation in rural Maryland built around a single idea, which is how much value can you stack onto one piece of land without taking anything out of it? And your current answer, I think we're going to talk about it, is six things. [1:04:26] from what I've accounted. Okay. So, and, and just to give that little list here, grazing sheep, [1:04:33] Building solar. [1:04:34] Applying biochar, RET3. Burying branches in carbon vaults that'll hold for 3,500 years. Both things we're going to talk about. I have no idea what both of those things are or do. [1:04:45] Okay. Mining Bitcoin with the excess energy and then using AI to decide whether to... [1:04:53] mine or to set to mine that Bitcoin or to sell that power back to the, [1:04:58] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's all. That's what I counted. Great. OK. And then just a couple of other notes here. You guys wrote a bill that passed unanimously in the Maryland State Senate. Yeah. Inaugural members of Strategies Bitcoin Hub. And basically your your overall thesis, from what I can tell, is keeping family farms.

[1:05:17] in family hands. [1:05:20] And very here for all of that. So welcome to the show, Josh. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I'm glad to be here joining. You know, you've had a lot of folks I've known over the last few years on. So, yeah, it's very cool. [1:05:31] Okay, did I get that list right? Yeah, you did. And I think the last part you said is really important. My business partner, Mark, likes to say success will obviously be if we can pay our bills and be successful in our own lives. But if we can bring other people along with us, that's true success. And [1:05:54] what's happening across the world, but definitely in the U.S. in terms of smallholder farms, getting less and less of a piece of the pie versus these super large factory farms. It's making it almost an untenable practice, built upon subsidies, obviously varying things happening with the climate. Most farmers, at least that we know around here in Maryland, they work [1:06:20] another full-time job in our running farms. And we were just at a farm bureau meeting with also like the local planning and zoning commissions. I mean, all this stuff, like, [1:06:30] is happening so locally, but everywhere, not just here. [1:06:34] And you go to these meetings and you hear there's 371 farms in our county [1:06:39] that [1:06:40] make $20 million in revenue. And like, that means most people are probably not making enough. That's just a side thing. And then maybe the top few are making all of it. And, you know, how can we change the economics for farms and by doing it ourselves to learn how to do it, but also to, you know, you change that and maybe, you know, the average age of the farmer right now is 58 years old.

[1:07:02] They're aging out. So how can you get people interested and bring in, you know, different pieces of technology that people can decide to plug in or not? And as you mentioned earlier, just sort of stack these things on top of each other, whether it's involving obviously using AI to control some processes on the farm and things like that, or arbitrage energy or deep in decentralized physical infrastructure of solar and what you can do with it, whether using yourself or send it other places. [1:07:32] others, but we got to prove that out for ourselves. I love this. It's a personal story for, or I have a personal interest in it as well. My mom and her partner have a seven generation family farm in upstate New York. And there's been many times over those many generations of boom and moments of bust, certainly. And I think to your point now, there's very much a calculation around what's the land worth from a real estate perspective and then versus what's the farm worth. We'll get into it, [1:08:02] in this on a personal level as well. So, okay. Part of what I love about what's happening right now is that for people who are just listening, Josh is outside. [1:08:14] on a farm and the background looks like AI, [1:08:17] But it's not. It's a real farm. Can you talk us through sort of where you're at? Like, what are we hearing? What are we seeing? Give us a little paint the picture for us. [1:08:27] Yeah, sure. So we're in a it's a town or maybe it's even it might be just classified as a human settlement on the map. Seventeen hundred people. It's called Nanjamoy, Maryland. It's about 45 minutes south of D.C.,

[1:08:41] which is great. So close to a metropolitan area. Yeah, we're on our first parcel, which is a 73 acre former sawmill slash cattle farm. We actually have now a second property about 15 minutes away that we're going to be developing concurrently near Smallwood State Park. But I mean, I'm about like, I'm pointing this way, the Potomac River is right over there, you know, further enough south [1:09:11] Thank you. [1:09:11] We have on the other side of the barn that I'm sitting at our first stage of solar. It's 105 kilowatts, pretty small, which we're developing in stages. One, because, you know, it takes money. And as we get financing in and grants and take on equity financing, we have a plan for growth for the solar. And then, as you mentioned before, a biochar facility. And we can get into that if you want down the line. Yeah, what's biochar? So biochar is what's left. [1:09:41] our case waste trees like think about dead trees laying around everywhere or when people are trimming their homes the trees around their home or whatever power lines just everything waste you would not like [1:09:55] cut down trees to do this, but you run it through a machine, what's called a pyrolyzer. And what that is, is heating up to like a thousand degrees Celsius in the absence of oxygen. So there, there's barely any, uh, burn off or waste and anything like that. And you can get like a, let's say like a five to one ratio. If we put, put 5,000 tons in a wood a year, we should get about a thousand tons of biochar. It kind of looks like mulch and that's just like pure carbon.

[1:10:25] apply the soil. You don't have to till it. It's water-soluble. You can spray it on land, so you don't have to dig up the land. You can mix it in concrete. And what that's doing, that carbon is never going into the atmosphere ever. So you're sequestering it. And that creates the biochart itself, which people, especially people who love plants, and people who love plants really love plants. They pay good money for this at the store. But farmers can get [1:10:55] We know a lot of people doing it in, let's say, Napa Valley, where grape yields are going up, and that's a pretty dry place. They don't get a lot of rain. They have fires. So it can fix nitrogen in the soil. It can help crop yields, but it also can hold water in the soil. So they're applying this in places that are prone to forest fires. I mean, it is kind of like a miracle drug. Yeah, it sounds like a miracle. [1:11:18] Is it dirt-like or is it hard? Yeah, it looks – it's like – it is. It looks like little black glass mulch almost. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And you would, like, buy a bag of it and you would put it in – [1:11:31] to your field till it in your field and help to revitalize the soil is that a good way to think about it exactly it's a perfect way to think about it and like i said you could also put it in a spray or mix it with water that's that's really nice for people who don't want to till the top soil and things like that but yeah i mean it's got applications like say you were a biochar producer and you've got a contract with the city to mix it in their concrete and they go out and pave roads i

[1:11:57] gone for tens of thousands of years. So that's called a durable carbon offset versus other things that people do that just aren't [1:12:08] like that and it didn't get crushed in the big beautiful bill there's a lot of tailwinds bipartisan tailwinds behind it okay so you heard it here first folks well keep your eye on biochar i love that okay so you have the biochar you have the solar and you have your mining bitcoin as well yes so what's your what does that look like there [1:12:29] Yeah, so with the solar, and this varies depending on how your power company works, but for us, as we build the solar up to a certain amount of megawatts, you have what's called net metering, which means you can offset your load of what you're consuming from the grid. You can offset. So Bitcoin mining for us... [1:12:53] it's a quick way to get the load up because they use that light to use a lot of energy. but, [1:12:59] They're using energy, but we're going to be powering it, you know, with our solar. So, you know, it's a green way. We want to mine Bitcoin in the greenest way possible, but also it creates an asset. So we've already done this, actually. We are scaling up our mining as we add more and more solar to our project. But we use the Stacks ecosystem, Granite Protocol, to, you know, basically we put our Bitcoin in their vault and we pulled money out and we purchased a couple more Bitcoin miners.

[1:13:29] where a farmer could purchase a tractor or something like that, almost become their own bank if they had Bitcoin mining, battery storage, and solar on the farm. Okay, so that's what it takes in order for this sort of setup to work, is you have the solar, you have the rigs, and then you have the storage for the batteries as well. Is that the right way to think about it? Yeah, that's the right way to look at it. And then, so when you have the batteries going, and then obviously with the Bitcoin price of volatile, [1:13:59] The batteries have APIs that you can plug into and sort of say, okay, like, when should I be using what for what? My solar power versus my battery power versus – or maybe I should be selling power to the grid or to somebody else, a PPA with, you know, maybe a data company or whatever down the line. I mean, whatever. You're just having control of that energy that's powerful, especially – [1:14:22] what's going on right now, [1:14:25] I met some guys. It's very clever. I met some guys at the blackjack table in Vegas while I was... [1:14:34] They're for Bitcoin Las Vegas, and they were guys that were at the conference as well, and they are basically trying to get Bitcoin miners to... [1:14:46] transition or perhaps as well as doing Bitcoin mining, building AI sort of data centers, like mini sort of data centers on top of Bitcoin mining rigs, because their thinking is like, you already have the footprint, you already have a lot of the infrastructure, you can sort of layer on top the AI data center, or I actually don't know physically what that looks like, but I assume it's a similar setup. Have you guys considered that?

[1:15:11] So we've considered like definitely diversifying into having GPUs and using solar for that. The difference in that is more like I... [1:15:21] If you can make more profits selling that compute, whereas with and you might be able to, whereas with Bitcoin, you know, you're just generating this asset that, you know, is volatile, but it is there and then you can borrow against it. But I think it's definitely something that we think about a lot, especially as we want to scale up to about five megawatts on each farm. [1:15:51] megawatts is the threshold to do what they call a community solar program. And, you know, [1:15:57] Thank you. [1:15:57] three megawatts of constant power, if you add batteries to it, can power hundreds of homes. And, you know, like where we are... [1:16:07] I mean, I have to lurk on all the Facebook message groups to see who is hating what at the time. And, you know, we haven't had to have a big community meeting yet. But I tell you who they do hate is the power company, because, you know, [1:16:18] These people are wearing probably the poorest zip code in Maryland. They're not making a lot of money. [1:16:24] their power bill is doubling, you know, and it's crazy. And with Maryland, Maryland imports, [1:16:30] probably like, I don't know, it's like 30 to 40% of its power. And our power company doesn't, they generate a little bit, like they have some solar, but they basically purchase their power at auction. So if the power price is going up from whoever they're buying it from in Delaware, Pennsylvania, whatever, they just pass it to the people here. And so if we can alleviate that, and we've had those conversations with the power company, we're like, hey, look, guys, people out here, they really don't like you. So let's work together and let us provide some of

[1:17:00] folks. So like I said, it just goes back to like, [1:17:03] everything being circular. In the end of the day, we want to empower small to midsize farmers, but then also bring this. You know, that's why we think Bitcoin is a clean collateral that they can use to be their own bank. We think it's really transformational because otherwise it's hard to say what's going to happen. And, [1:17:23] There's also a lot of fighting. You mentioned the sheep grazing, right? So people that's the that's a really big part of this, because it used to be solar farming never together. And industry would set itself up against each other for that reason, because for a grand scale solar company, they just want to come in, build as much as they can, pack as many panels as they can, kill everything with Roundup, call it a day or mow it. [1:17:49] I think so it's the reason that they're in conflict is because like physically those two things are in conflict. You can't have both the solar panels and the. [1:17:57] the land doing the work. But you can't. [1:18:00] Except you can't. Okay. And you guys are solving for that. Exactly. So it's called agrivoltaics. And it's huge now. One of the biggest... [1:18:08] Cattle ranchers and now sheep ranchers in the country, wide oak pastures down in Georgia, they're like leading this. You can absolutely graze cattle, sheep. You can have pollinators, wildflowers. You can grow plants under solar. There's all this technology. The panels move now. You have translucent ones. But you can't. [1:18:29] it's pretty hard.

[1:18:32] All this stuff is new when you're combining it, and to change... [1:18:36] Like... [1:18:37] You mentioned generations, ideas that have been held for generations. You know, why can't we have both? The sheep, we first put our sheep under the solar like a couple months ago, and they just ran to the shade because it was like hot as hell. Like it's they love it. Cows love it. And that goes back to let's keep the farm farming. Let's keep it agriculture. Let's continue to grow animals, grow crops. [1:19:07] less expensive way to keep the vegetation managed. It's more healthy for the soil. They're driving, they're walking on it all the time and going to the bathroom all the time and stepping in and fertilizing it. So it all works together like that. [1:19:20] I love that. Okay. There's this other piece here as I was doing my research that [1:19:26] I don't feel like I fully have a... Is it the wood vault? The wood vault. Yeah, wood vault. So you bury branches... [1:19:37] underground into these vaults and it's another carbon sequestering. Yeah. And that's literally it. Okay. And what's the difference between that and the biochar? It seems like it's similar. So, um, [1:19:50] They just work in different ways. There's a professor, Ning Zhang, from the University of Maryland here. He's kind of the godfather of this stuff, written all the papers. And, yeah, it's –

[1:20:03] old dead trees, you dig a hole with, you know, excavator, you put them in there, you have to go in like beneath the clay soil layer to where it's no oxygen in anoxic environment. [1:20:16] And then, yeah, put all the dirt back on and then do whatever the hell you want above it. So that's a way to sequester carbon, get rid of, you know, again, like in places where there's a lot of fodder for forest fires and everything where those trees would just sort of decompose. And, yeah, when I heard it, you're just like... [1:20:37] But it's pretty simple. But that was part of the bill we got passed. My business partner, you know, he was head of government affairs for Clorox for a long time, worked on the Brita side and was really interested in filtration. That's sort of how he got into the biochar stuff. But, you know, he is a lobbyist and he knows his way around that stuff. And when the county was kind of telling us, well, I don't know, is that agriculture? I don't know. It's like, all right, I'm going to go talk to my delegates and I'm going to talk to the governor. [1:21:07] and we had this, it passed through the House of Maryland and then the Senate, bipartisan, people kept, because everyone's like, oh, I want to put my, oh, that's good for farmers. Let me put my name on that, you know, for my constituents. And yeah, and what that did was it said by 2028, there will be regulations for this stuff. It's kind of like, almost like the, for biochar and wood vaulting. Okay. Okay. It sets up a regulatory framework and it really reminds me of the fight of everyone's

[1:21:37] Like, no, like we want [1:21:38] some regulation here to be able to do what we want to do, which people have been fighting for on the crypto side and Washington for shit now over a decade. Right. Um, [1:21:50] So yeah, and so that then the county sees, oh, well, the state has now said the Department of Agriculture needs will be regulating these projects. So that gives them, I think, a little more confidence in that. Yeah, like by law, we are agriculture and then yeah. [1:22:07] People can come behind us and do this without going through the last two and a half years of what we've been going through. [1:22:13] Yeah, I know and having experienced again, Bitcoin Las Vegas this past week, just how Bitcoin has a continues to have a brand problem. And I can imagine in rural Maryland that there may be some misconceptions or just conceptions about Bitcoin and energy. And I wonder how have you encountered resistance? [1:22:43] around doing what you guys are doing there, specifically around Bitcoin, although I imagine that extends to AI when that [1:22:50] starts to come to the conversation as well. But like, what's, has there been pushback? [1:22:54] *sniff* [1:22:55] Yeah, not as much pushback as like... [1:22:59] We don't we when I go to the Farm Bureau meetings, people haven't necessarily followed it now. [1:23:06] A lot of people have learned about crypto because when Trump got into power and he started talking about it a lot and then you're like, no, not that part. Don't get that. Look at that coin. But it's way more. The A.I. and data center stuff is way more front and center because we're just across the river from Virginia, where it's kind of the epicenter of where a lot of the pushback is going, because Virginia has.

[1:23:29] the most data centers per whatever square mile of anywhere. They say that goes back to when the internet was being built and all the pipes in, you know, are there for, and it's like, AOL started there and everything. So the fiber and infrastructure is why I was always like, why the hell? And the government, obviously the Pentagon, like, why the hell is all this stuff in Virginia? Yeah. I would not have thought Virginia of all, of all the places. I would be like, Oh, it should be out in Arizona somewhere. Um, [1:23:56] So they see the... [1:23:59] the, you know, you don't hear with Bitcoin. It used to be like, Oh, they use so much energy and they're pulling from the power plants, which are then, you know, combustible power, but you didn't have like the water supply issue. It's what's like people here like water and, [1:24:14] And there's, that's the thing, you know, there are a lot of companies working to sort of change that. Not just, not just change the message, but change like how much, how, you know, I think data centers eventually will run more efficiently. Right. But it's not like you can just pull the water from the river, which also not good. It needs to be like treated. It's like, I think it's like basically drinking water you need to be using in these places. But so we personally haven't seen that pushback, but yeah, [1:24:41] We are following that all those conversations closely over here because [1:24:46] Well, somebody wanted to put a provision. I don't know if they recommended it to the commission or something. Somebody was like, we can fight data centers by like putting these bills forth. And then the bill is like, if you have more than one computer, you're a data center. And you're like, no, you're like, then everyone is a, you know, so it's just this weird thing.

[1:25:05] I mean, it's crazy that the messaging and the opposition, a lot of people here want data centers and I get it because they they have to go work two hours each way in Virginia to build them like the electric unions and things like that. But when people here are having. [1:25:22] expensive power already? [1:25:24] You know, we look great on the other side of that conversation because we're like, let us give you clean, green energy and let us help. You know, there's a world where you can build solar, excuse me, next to a data center that's being built to create the baseload power there, which would be really smart. And, you know, solar or any other, some other kind of renewable. But, yeah, it's definitely... [1:25:48] locally a hot topic, but Bitcoin has not been as much. Bitcoin is more, people seem to be, all the farmers I meet are pretty open to like, oh, like curious. [1:26:00] Yeah, because many of them have had to do some so much. You know, there's always fixing things on a farm. There's always something to do. And oh, oh, shit, like that happened. Well, now I have to do this this way because the weather was like this year. And, you know, there's all sorts of like homegrown innovation happening, like our next door neighbor. [1:26:30] down and stuff. But yeah, it's cool. It's actually cool to like talk to people about it. [1:26:35] Totally. Okay. I want to, I want to end here with like a little vision casting. So,

[1:26:41] I'm curious how you would answer the question around if carbon country works and [1:26:48] . [1:26:48] In five years and 10 years, does it look like you guys have a bigger footprint or does it look like it's a template or a stack that other farmers are using? [1:26:59] also using themselves and they're running their own stack? What's the best case scenario for you guys? [1:27:06] I think it's us in the region having a bigger footprint, because you actually don't need more than one large scale buyer's charge facility super close. [1:27:17] to another one. So let's, we'll be the first in Maryland, I think. I mean, if someone front runs us, great. We pass the bill, get the, great. But I think we will be. And then we'll continue to, to purchase farms on our own and, and just do this serially. But yes, creating that template, especially with the tools we're building that can sort of, people can utilize to see if, if where they live or their farm is sort of eligible for something like this, [1:27:47] go to these conferences and spread the word and things. And Mark, he lives northwest of D.C., commutes here every day. I used to live here every day. I'm back in D.C. now. I think I told you there's no plumbing. We have wells, but we have no plumbing. So it was pretty crazy for a while. But he has young children, right? I think 12 and 13. So we are in this region for at least five years, five, six years until they get out of the house. And so we'll continue to build in Maryland,

[1:28:17] I mean, I think if we can prove it out, get all the regulatory stuff done so other people don't have to go through all that, I really think we can start moving a lot faster over the next three years. And then from five to ten? [1:28:31] So that's where maybe we expand. Mark, you know, he grew up, he was born and grew up a little bit in Brazil. I've lived in Mexico. I've worked in Latin America when I was working for NGOs and stuff. I think [1:28:44] I've already talked to people in Venezuela now that certain sanctions are lifted about like, let's build some solar now because, you know, it's not illegal to send aid across the border, which it kind of was during the Maduro regime. So I just think expanding, if not global, at least in this hemisphere, right, would be a dream of mine personally. [1:29:04] I love that. Josh, always a pleasure. Yeah. And I really am. I'm very invested now. So you got to keep me posted. I will. Of course. And I remember you talking about farming before. And so I definitely will keep you posted. I had one thing I wanted to bring up. Y'all were talking about LinkedIn with Stefan last week. [1:29:20] How LinkedIn is like, okay, like we're, I don't know if we were ever not on LinkedIn, but we're definitely all back on LinkedIn. So I got a message about a year ago from. [1:29:32] a woman I hadn't talked to in 25 years, went to high school with, um, and she'll probably kill me, but we're dating now for a year, but she linked in. Oh my gosh. See, that's a great LinkedIn story. I love that. But I was like, Oh, did she just get on LinkedIn and is friending all her like, you know, but she had it. She did ask me to go get something. So anyway, I was like,

[1:30:02] LinkedIn dating story. I think that they get- Yeah, compared. I know there's a lot of nightmares. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Amazing. Okay, great. Well, we'll have to have you back soon to share your updates. Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.