964. - Jon Kelly

[00:18] How long gone? It's a sweltering Tuesday afternoon here in Atlanta, Georgia. It's a humidity hug, [00:30] how could you be in a bad mood? You know what I'm saying? I tried today. I just couldn't. I got home from... I did my best. Yeah. Yester, I'm glad that... It's kind of chilly here, actually. We have the heat wave will be coming for 250 on the 4th. Don't you worry. I'll get my poata shorts out by then. No problem. Back from the cleaner. I was in Providence. I flew back yesterday. What a... It was a tough route. American Airlines to Philly. [01:00] philly layover i got to see some of america's worst no offense to philly noah cahan's philadelphia you were able to make it out just like um i don't know like you you now that i've seen shane gillis's rise to success and fame and popularity he really embodies that kind of philly guy just like a big man like um the refrigerator sturdy the refrigerator perry the guy that was on the yeah i'm familiar [01:30] familiar with the fridge but he just passed away last week right so i've got fridge on the mind and and everyone in the airport [01:37] was just built like a fucking fridge. Yeah, man. Just like they don't look fat. They don't look buff. Yeah. [01:44] But it's a combination of the two where you could just hit them with a car. And they don't work out. It's just genetic. It's kind of interesting. Yeah. Or Viking. It's a regional look, I would say, for that part of the country. I do know what you mean there. I'm surprised they have an NPR there. I mean, they have a lot of stuff. Don't forget the Urban Outfitters Corporation. I mean, look, there's lots of great things from Philadelphia beyond cheesesteaks. I don't mean to badmouth them.

[02:14] I don't want to, I mean, you know, how much time do we have? I walked past Gino's in the airport and I said, oh, but I didn't do it. Yeah, just grab a 12-inch extra cheese before the flight if you got it. God, the guy sitting next to me watched a movie on his phone the whole time, no headphones, and he was like... [02:31] He was just old enough to where I couldn't say anything to him because he wouldn't understand it. [02:36] You know, like, because I was sitting in first class American Airlines Associated, no TVs on a fucking cross country flight. Of course, they haven't got that technology yet. But this old guy, he didn't have headphones. He didn't know what was going on. And he was just watching a movie, like full volume. Oh, wow. The volume on his phone turned up. Yeah. Not a single person said anything to him the whole time because he was just that age where if you're like, hey, you got to watch. He just like, you wouldn't be able to like conversate with him. [03:06] you so it's just a net zero like i'm fine let's just keep it's a zero all you can do is grab the phone and turn it down manually and then he'll start crying and he'll relieve himself like a i know a cajon concert i don't want to i mean speaking of bodies um we had a new body reveal yesterday and they're calling it they're calling they're calling it dyke tyson jason you know what i'm talking about you know what i'm talking about a new body a new body reveal they're calling it [03:36] two things together. What was the group chat [03:40] word yesterday. Elliot, more of a man than us. And then Al's response was, doesn't take much. That really kind of sums up how Elliot is brutally frame logging.

[03:53] 99% of genetically born males. Elliot Page looks amazing. I got to say, Elliot has taken up boxing and did a body reveal yesterday. And I'm talking chiseled from stone, touched by God stuff. Amazing. Truly amazing. I would like to compliment Elliot on all the hard work because that's something I could not achieve no matter what drugs I was taking. [04:23] there's a hole in the market for my film career to come back. You know, first trans superhero, you know, like, you know, there's a new video game out of, you know, is she going to be Mega Man in 2031? I think it could be more like I need to get this off my mental, but the benefits are probably not far behind, you know? Okay, so it's a personal goal that will only have positive side effects. Exactly. In Hollywood. [04:53] but unbelievable that's the exact same reason why i'm currently trying to transform my body it's it's less so that extreme and more so just you know trying to drop that freshman 15 in the midsection that's about i'll be happy with that i don't even need a movie freshman 15 bitch you're 45 years old what the fuck what what freshman are you talking about well you could have a freshman right now oh no and not not in the cool way i bet you i could have a freshman right now not in like

[05:23] More in an age-appropriate procreation type of way. Exactly, the age-appropriate way. I saw a post on X that made me think of you. It's a writer who used to work at Cafe Select, and she broke down sort of in a pretty succinct way, I have to say, about why restaurants need alcohol so desperately to stay in business. [05:53] working for him, keeping the doors open. It's just a very, it's the very, like it really broke it down in like eight tweets and I was like, oh, this make, I knew this, but like seeing it written out like this really makes all the sense in the world. And like, the desperation of the mini martini [06:08] You know, like that's how bad it's gotten is that like we'll sell you half the amount of alcohol for basically the same price just to get anything to get you to wet your whistle. Just to get a bucket in the hole, just to get something on the board. We know we'll take anything. I mean, I see it happening a lot. And I guess like you would think that the film industry... [06:32] You know, because they famously, they make all their money off of concessions only. So they got to sell, you know, a lot of popcorn to keep the doors open. I know they're starting to sell alcohol. As soon as like movie theaters take alcohol and, you know, have it available. Now nobody likes alcohol anymore. And now nobody wants to eat processed foods or candy anymore. I think if they really... Slow down. I don't want them to... Slow down. I don't want places to open up like a twee vegan, you know, orange wine movie theater.

[07:02] but- [07:02] If one, like every, you know, LA has 50 movie theaters. If two of them... [07:07] They just said, all right, Jessica from Squirrel is going to come in and redo the food. It's going to be popcorn and candy and alcohol and stuff, but done in a way that people actually want. I feel like I would go to the movies more if I could get some popcorn that wasn't going to give me fucking testicular cancer. No, I think those two things need to be church and state. If I want to go to a restaurant, I want to go to a restaurant. If I want to go to a movie theater, I want to go to a... I know, but I'm saying it's 2026. Church and state is not so binary anymore. I'm looking for a church state. [07:37] just a little bit of both. I'm just saying, fret not fatties. We're still going to have popcorn covered in butter. It's just not going to be like Monsanto. I think part of the joy, I think the last remaining bozos who want to go to the movies are either people who went to film school and really loved this shit or people who want an excuse to eat the stuff you're talking about. I think if you take that stuff away, we're chopping off 80% of the people [08:07] I see... Look, it's a risky move. That's why I said two out of 50 locations. If you're not getting a large popcorn in a bucket that's shaped like a shoe and dumping some Sour Patch Kids and some PM&Ms in there, then you could just be at home. You would never do that at home. Ever. You would never do that at home. I know. Unless you're Benny Blanc or Ludacris and you have a home theater, but not everyone has that.

[08:37] You get the communal... [08:38] energy, not of watching a film together and laughing at, you know, Toy Story 5, all the same parts with your friends, more so community. [08:48] communitive like hive mind eating of junk food it's airport in and around other people but it's with it's it's in pitch black that's the difference yeah it's as bright as fuck at 4 a.m bro you know just like that sterile hospital lighting the movie theater you everyone puts a headband on and we are fucking eating like a fat hog nope i'm looking around as soon as while those lights but but also look around all you want it's black bitch no no no i'm saying there's a jason there [09:18] those lights go down where you can see who's the real snacker. [09:21] You can, don't act like, don't act like. Okay, so do you sit in the front just so you could turn your head around? I try to sit in a movie theater all unless a gun is to my head. I'm just saying as somebody who likes to look. If I'm in there, I do like to look. I do like to watch. Because if you're sitting in the back, you get a bird's eye, but it's hard to, you can't see exactly what's going on because you're looking at the back of their head. No, you can, you can, you can, you know, you know as well as I do. [09:51] You can piece it together. You kind of can figure out what's going on. I'm saying you just know that. It's just you know that people. A real munch knows. Exactly. It takes a munch to know a munch. You know when somebody walks in. Muncher's privilege. Because you see them walk in with the fat bucket of popcorn and the extra large Dr. Pepper. You see their pockets sagging because they got the Junior Mints in one pocket. They got the Jujubees in one pocket. You're saying it's not the Glock. It's not the Glockenspiel. No, bro.

[10:21] No, they got it tucked. It's not the Nana clip. They got shit tucked. They got shit everywhere on their person. He brought all his friends. He got Mike, he got Ike, he got peanut butter. You wear your cargo pants so you can fit more shit. And the thing is, I would say that real ones are buying that shit at the movie theater. If you're sneaking it in, that's cheating. I honestly think that is a crime. You should go to, not prison. Yeah, if you sneak food in, you might as well be boycotting the Arclight. [10:51] it's anti-cinema. No, you got to get in there. You got to get in there. You might as well unfollow Luca Guadaginjo on Letterboxd. Thank God his movie Neon bought it just before we started potting. So the Sam. Oh, really? Yeah, the controversial movie. They're going to make an announcement, apparently. Thank God. Neon? Neon bought it. Yeah, I was worried. I was fucking, you know, I was texting Matt Bellany all morning. You know, I was just, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? What's going to happen? And thank God. 11th hour. It's cool that we're [11:21] rich get richer yeah we do have a guest today um and uh he's uh the founder of puck john kelly co-founder of puck um and before that a long time uh conde nast employee yeah under the tutelage of grayden carter and i wore my ceremonial wife beater for today's episode just you know in in remembrance of grayden's episode well john might ask you rated us for being tatted up john might ask you about your arm routine just to know what he shouldn't do so that's a good that's a good

[11:51] so I can know not what to do. All right, let's tap in with the big boss and see what he's got to say. I'm all about low, low weight, slow movements, you know? [12:03] Hey, Siri, what's the opposite of explosive? [12:07] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our old dogs over at Squarespace. Jason, I spend every waking minute of my day surfing the World Wide Web. I'm looking at social media, but you know me, I'm old school. [12:21] I'm still checking out websites, baby. I type in that URL. I click. I surf. I find information. I delete information. It never ends with the internet. And most of the best websites that I come across... [12:34] were built on Squarespace. Use Squarespace and their beautiful websites to do some crazy stuff. You have a vision and you want to build a website for your new crazy business or whatever. But you could also, you know, let's say your dog is having a gender reveal party and you just want to have a nice destination where there's a rich FAQ section and a place where people can donate and view the registry or maybe even your wedding. You know, we all need a wedding website. It's just a thing that [13:04] And why not make it look better than all of your friends... [13:08] invitations and websites this year only on Squarespace. Shit on the homies using Squarespace. So go to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[13:22] This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by Superpower. Every time I go to the regular doctor, I leave dumber than I came in. They tell me I'm fine. I get no data points. I get no spreadsheets. I don't even get a fucking game plan. I just get a see you next time, a pat on the ass, and I'm out the door. And I'm sick of that shit. And I feel like for whatever reason that you, them genes, might have a solution for me. Yeah, if you're sick and tired of your doctor saying see you next time, [13:52] to check out Superpower. It's basically the way to insert... [13:58] all of this unknown information that your human doctor is hiding from you straight into your into your hand. I'm sure they have a beautiful app and a destination that shows you here's all of your hundred plus biomarkers. But instead of your doctor saying like, that looks low. Anyway, do you see the Dodger game? You know, you're going to say, here's this biomarker and click this button. Here's what it means. Here's what you should do about it. This is happening here. [14:28] water rafting, whatever it is, Superpower will give you the exact data and information to know how you can improve your life and become super. So take control of your health with Superpower for a limited time. How long gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence, head to superpower.com and use the code how long for $20 off your 199 Superpower membership. After

[14:58] and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that will help support the show. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to us by our friends at Dart Collective. I think we can all agree that wedding music is typically quite lame, cheesy, and it doesn't represent the bride and groom's personal music taste. Luckily, Dart works with actual musicians and artists, many of whom have their own productive careers or tour in bands you've heard of, everyone from Leon Bridges to Taylor Swift. Dart DJs use vinyl and... [15:28] and are cool in a way that your peers would be, not a dated Carnival Cruise performer. They even have an in-house stylist to make sure all personnel look perfect on the day. Dart travels all over the world for events from Morocco to Italy, Greece, and the Maldives. Dart has done huge celebrity events and also intimate ones. Yeah, Chris, I am personally friends with Michael from Dart, and I have worked with them for years. [15:58] Thank you. [15:59] wedding they set up a beautiful booth for the you know for the ceremony just some cocktail music some vinyl some cool vibes and then they set up a whole big tent with a crazy bumping sound system for me to play in later these guys are great a lot of people always ask me like hey you know do cool wedding djs exist do cool event people exist the cool part about dart is they'll work with people like me to come and dj or party as well as provide all the gear and all the consulting

[16:29] who to hire. [16:30] for your event dart collective is the one dart just like throwing a dart dash collective.com and uh ask for mike his email address is michael at dart dash collective.com tell them we sent you uh so if you have an event coming up this summer dart collective is where you go [16:52] you [16:53] All right, John, let's rock. All right, so you and Jason, I don't know what you have in common, but you guys were saying that you're Burbs bros. Can you explain that? Is that a sports team I'm not familiar with? You want me to take this one? You want to do it, John? Welcome to the pod. It's a new turn for me, so why don't you start, and I'll help you if I feel like you've failed to define it. Throwing out a little color. Basically, what that means, Chris, is we both live in the suburbs of a major city. Okay. You know, New York for him, Los Angeles for me. [17:21] We still have our finger on the pulse. We're still a member of the cool community, but we're kind of perched off, you know, whatever, a 20-minute train ride just out of the town. Okay. Who has told you that, that you still have a great—who has kind of, like, backed that up? I've been self-deputized with that title myself. Okay, okay. I got it. I mean, I feel in my heart confident that I know what's up. [17:42] And John, you know, you get to the city a lot, I'm sure. Well, but don't you... If you live in LA, isn't everything basically a suburb? I feel like people don't identify... [17:51] uh even though they're all suburbs um yeah but this is this is a badge that you wear proudly i i think that you have a point there and i i think because of the sprawl of of urban los angeles it all can i mean unless you live on hollywood boulevard which is is a choice that no one's making los angeles as a whole is a collection of of neighborhoods and areas but there are areas that are considered the suburbs of it which is typically the valley quote unquote or over the

[18:21] sure we're burbs bros i guess is what i'm trying to get out here i feel like because you live on upper east side is what you're saying no no no i think everyone who lives in in in around do you pay for a landscaper [18:32] So, okay, so I do, but here's my real answer. So I grew up in New York. I grew up in Grand Village in the 80s. And so the suburbs are actually very exotic to me. I left... [18:47] my wife and I left New York when our, our, she was pregnant with our second son and, and, [18:54] I was sort of sick of what was happening to that version of New York. It was sort of becoming, you know, a suburb of Dwayne Reed and kind of, you know, Goldman Sachsistan. And this world in the suburbs is... [19:07] It's fascinating to me. You know, it's exotic. Like Costco, tennis courts. Parking lot. I've actually, John, I've never thought about this. I've never thought about, because I guess a lot of people I knew that grew up in the city, they're willing to go to Brooklyn. And that's kind of where they stop. You know what I mean? But you're saying that it's basically like you're like a wide-eyed kid moving into Manhattan. It's the opposite for you. It's like you've had your third eye open by the suburbs. He said exotic, not better. [19:37] I think that modern New York is incredibly suburban, and I'm not putting it down. You're right. No, you're right. It is... [19:45] You know, whenever I'm on the Upper West Side, again, I grew up in a village with a lot of my friends. When I was in high school...

[19:51] you know, lived on the far west side. And I remember, when I think about Broadway in the '90s, I think about like, "Hairy Shoes" and "New Pizza Town 2." And then all of a sudden, it was just like one big, you know, Best Buy followed by Brooks Brothers. And that was sort of what happened when the people who were not New Yorkers, [20:10] came here and they said like, oh, let's, let's figure out our sort of tasty delight vision of Manhattan and, um, you know, the rest is history. So I, so we sort of opted out, you know, um, and obviously my business is in New York. I'm, I'm in New York five days a week in the office. And I, um, uh, I think I, I'd be lost without like that touch point because I really, I mean, I've been here my whole life. I went to college in New York too, but so I wasn't, you didn't even go to college somewhere else. You're a real freak. You said, I love this shit. Wow. You earned New [20:40] you guys have done your research on me so i'm excited to hear what else lauren has told you about my um no lauren said lauren said i'm not giving you any ammo this guy signs my checks you you dig your own grave also how much research do you think we we didn't even we had to ask you where you live you know so i wouldn't say we went super duper deep you guys have a good process i can i can appreciate it we have a good we do have a great process no i think that is a really interesting take though because i i think that you're right and i think that new york has all [21:10] modern conveniences that a suburb offers as far as big box goes. But then you get all the bad shit too, which makes you wear it with a point of pride. I'm at my parents' house in Atlanta right now. I can go to the Target and I don't have to step over any dead bodies or anything to get there. But in New York, you got to- But you're paying twice as much money

[21:30] and living in half as much space to be able to walk out your front door [21:36] And there's the world versus getting in your car and driving 17 minutes to, you know, crunch fitness and getting a smoothie. Well, there is. I mean, to give you a semi-serious answer, obviously, there is a value proposition disparity. Right. You know, if you live in New York and if you're going to enter middle age in New York and you're going to have kids, you're, you know, you're paying for schools. You might want a house on the weekend. Like it's a lot and it's complicated. [22:06] thing that ever happened to me. I love it. But I also, there are more cities that are more like, there are other cities that are more like New York. [22:13] than uh than new york again i'm not trying to play remember when oh interesting what would you say what give us an example of that um some parts of some parts of toronto i'd probably get shot for saying that um uh you know uh east la um uh you know this is and of course you know there are still some there's still some parts of brooklyn that i think remind me of um the neighborhoods that i grew up in and that's okay right change is great but i but i remember you know i'm [22:41] you know, as a kid when Giuliani was elected and it all changed, you know, all the, I used to, my baseball team used to practice on a slab of concrete on the West side highway around 11th street. You sound like you're 150 years old. I love this. I know, I know, I know. That was, that's the way it was. And there were, you know, there were like a night workers, you know, around Gantamert street before that kind of got turned around. My t-ball coach sold crack on the

[23:11] literally coach when i was seven was frank stella and he was it was a different world what yeah and so when when when giuliani was elected it's hard for people to understand um you know giuliani was a reasonable normal person who was an enforcer and all of a sudden like our the patchwork dirt you know or whatever you know concrete slab we played on it became chelsea piers you know and [23:41] in the late 90s when some combination of, or at least Lower Manhattan's turn point was in the late 90s when Goldman Sachs moved downtown to 200 West, they're probably getting the date wrong a little bit. Past East opened and turned an otherwise sort of uninhabitable neighborhood into, you know, kind of yuppie Nirvana. And then Perry Street eventually opened, which, you know, like, I can't tell you, like, how... [24:07] you know few people wanted to live in greenwich village yeah unless you wanted to skateboard in westbeth it was not a very appealing place to live and perry street changed all that it has been it has been romanticized over the years of course for for many reasons but i i i can imagine i mean that's what they you know you read mostly that story about soho you know what i mean it's like people live there because it was cheap and disgusting you know and it's like like anything else that now it's the most expensive or one of the most expensive places i lived in a football

[24:37] watched around the holidays i re-watched hannah and her sisters for the first time in years yeah i used to love that movie and uh if you remember some of the [24:46] the subplot um uh you know these these sisters are uh are uh one's having an affair with the other one's husband and it's shot michael cain plays a a an art dealer and a lot of it's shot in soho around where the old dean and deluca used to be and oh my god it looks like a war zone you know like yeah it's unrecognizable and um uh and you would not have wanted to live there well luckily now i can go down get my ritzia puffer coat just right on the corner and then head out [25:17] I am. I'm part of the problem, and I know that. I'm part of the problem, and I know that. No, but that is really... It is interesting to know when it's time to go, because I feel like a lot of people, especially if you grew up there, it's such a part of your identity that leaving feels crazy. You know, it feels crazy to people. Well, it's funny. When I... [25:33] A few years ago, around Thanksgiving, we were... [25:38] we were putting our house in the market. We moved, and so we had to, like, get staged and everything. So we spent the weekend in Manhattan. And my younger son, who's eight now, we went to, like, Tiny's for dinner or something like that. And... [25:51] I was taking him, going back to the hotel, and he was just like, carry me. Like, this is filthy. Like, this is disgusting. Who would ever live here? This is child abuse, bro. Get me out of here. I don't walk here. Like, there's trash on the street. What kind of Bulgarians would ever imagine calling this place home? You know, and I was like, we're in Tribeca, too. Like, it's not Baghdad. Yeah. Yeah.

[26:15] Yeah, this is it. Sweetheart, let me show you. We can take you some places. This is in Spencer Pratt's Los Angeles. Yeah, did you think that... That's so funny. Did you suspect that if Spencer would have won, as an aside, do you think he would have... [26:30] been the level-headed person to kind of Giuliani clean the streets up do you think he would have made some progress actually or do you think it was all a bunch of hooey i think that was a bullet dodge for you guys i think you should be pretty happy that that well well i don't want to i don't you know i don't want to bring up a sore subject here but dave portnoy uh is now saying he might he might he said he's going to go up against mom donnie he thinks he could he thinks he and i saw somebody on twitter say he's too ugly to be mayor and i was like that you know what that's perfect [27:00] stances that's the perfect retort to that i think it's fine there's definitely a like cultural threshold that you have to hit um as a kind of uh famous person of a certain type to like you've descended to the point where you have to decide that you want to run for mayor to be relevant again i feel like for you know for spencer pratt it took a long time i'm always amazed dave portnoy made a fortune from the sale of barstool and then and then basically was like

[27:30] you know, a dollar. [27:32] Just be rich. Just enjoy it. Just be rich. I mean, like, you can make your... I say that all the time, but Chris pushes back. He says no one can ever stop. There's always more money. No, but that's not true. That's not true. There are plenty of rich people who have realized that rich and anonymous is a fascinating diagram. But, John, this is what I was going to say. Rich and anonymous, yes. If you're rich came with front-facing, I think you're more addicted to being a public figure than you are to the money. [28:02] Does that make sense? Yeah, sure. I think that you're right. I think if you're an anonymous billionaire and you've done it below the line and no one knows who you are, that's very different. But I think if fame was attached to it in any way, even if infamy was attached to it in any way, you want both and you can't stop. But do you think there is enough money? Like, do you think? Because people, like, it's like this polymarket campaign with Rick Rubin and blah, blah, blah. It's like people are like, he doesn't need the money. I'm like, no one needs the money. It's about wanting the money. Right. [28:32] understanding of that well i think you're making two points here the first of which um uh i think a lot of people listen to the show probably agree with not everyone who is rich should be rich right it doesn't it doesn't always it doesn't always work that way you can't go to the rich store and say i want that rich person like it doesn't it just the system is not set up the way um i don't know i i really do think that like we chose capitalism and uh there are almost all of it

[29:02] motivates people fascinates me um sometimes it is money sometimes it's a different form of capital we're just talking about fame that's a very real one sometimes it's it's not to get like too deep but like you know it's it's more psychological um um but you know what has definitely changed over the last [29:19] 20 years or so is just the like the wealth discourse you know um yeah in the old days you were rich you joined multiple clubs maybe your name was one day affixed to the side of a museum now if you're if you're ultra high net worth if you're worth you know hundreds of millions or billions of dollars you subscribe to a different philosophy than many members of the human race and that um that really has happened and we see parts of that in like the manosphere um you know [29:49] conversation uh you know a lot of this is actually wrapped up not to get too heavy on you guys but like part of this is is drop it on us brother well it's it's in the ai discourse too no for sure i think you're absolutely right i think that and it's always been about power i think as a is obviously one of the major tentpoles but i think now because everything is so public it's like the thirst to use your money to influence politics and sort of the way the world works is different [30:19] Whereas before it was done in a, in a, like you said, in a country club somewhere that we would never have access to now. We didn't, we didn't know the Sam Altman flick was getting the kibosh. Yeah. And now it's like, and now it's like literally everything. Like it's, it's Elon talking about, you know, putting his fucking dogs on the desk at the white house and saying like, I want you to kill this person. It's different. You guys are billionaires. What do you think? It's true. And I, I use my money for good. I always give anonymously. It's fine. Don't, don't worry about me.

[30:49] Those who know, know. Okay. I think the power thing, and I think Elon is a bad example, obviously as a bad person, but I think he's a good example for people who want to be bad. It's like, oh, you know, you can like, this guy's doing it out loud and there's no consequences really. So like it's going to encourage other people to try that on whatever level they're at. [31:19] his partners is extraordinary. You know, if you look at the number of billionaires they're minting in Austin right now, it's transformative. One of the funny things, if you step back and really do, you know, try and think deeply about this stuff is... [31:33] technology in the last 20 years has accumulated more wealth and fewer hands ever before we we know that um in some cases it was due to like profound strategic thinking in other cases it was due to luck most people don't admit that they got incredibly wealthy by being totally lucky um so they so they apply their their worldview to other um sort of professional genres where they may have less experience but if you think that's going to stop you're crazy right because because [32:03] revolution did to centralizing that wealth and fewer people, AI is going to turbocharge that. And it's heavy stuff, man. And every time I think people get frustrated with it, they consider the alternative. And unfortunately, this outcome is actually much better. I mean, I was reading, I think it was the New York Times, there's a story about where they interview AI employees, like, you know, low to mid-level that are making upwards of six figures,

[32:33] we're we're making what is considered by i would say 99 of americans to be a very healthy salary especially for my age and i can't afford to live in the city i work in it's major city middle class now yeah the middle gets chiseled in uh in a lot of ways uh in this culture and but by the way too and not to you know do any reverse robin in here but i think we started by talking about new york there's a lot of people galloway talks about this and pivot all the time it's true there's a lot of [33:03] New York now too and of LA. [33:07] But yes, there's no question. And those people that you're talking about, Jason, who were like in those roles... [33:12] They're [33:13] In many cases, not only are they being priced out, but they're also training agents that are going to take over their jobs. [33:21] I'm not going to make enough money to pay my gas bill. And I was I was talking to a founder friend of mine this morning and we were talking about how you have to hire enough people. [33:31] to build the team that will fire them in 12 months so your company can then, you know, get the next valuation or whatever. Well, I can tell you, we don't do that at Puck, but there is a world in all circumstances, and I'm sure your friend's being sincere, where there are financing sources that, [33:50] that would [33:52] uh that would applaud that advice um but yeah yeah but i'm not as dystopian about uh ai coming for all these kinds of jobs as some others but we don't have to talk about that and make it a little grim no i'm not either i'm not either i mean i think it's sort of like i just think people people just think about things too much if that's that i know that sounds crazy but it's sort of like there's always something looming that is going to change our society for the worst that's historically just whatever that is black says don't think about ai too much guys

[34:22] become obsessed with this stuff and how it's going to affect them. And it's like, of course, you have to think about it a little bit as a function member society, but I think people really let the doom and gloom sort of take over their psyche. And there's no upside. Well, people are, the human mind leads anyone to be binary, right? You want to think it's good or it's bad. And, you know, none ever said the time it's somewhere in between. It's a little more complex. I think a lot, whenever I hear the kind of, you know, doom loopers, I'm reminded of an [34:52] five or six or seven years older than me and [34:56] He had one of his early professional experiences. He worked in the magazine industry, which is where I started my career. He worked at Time Magazine. And on the night of December 31st, 1999, Time Inc., which was part of a public company at that time. This was AOL Time Warner, was about to happen. They sent all what they called then the young people to the office, basically because they were worried at when the clock struck midnight with Y2K, that it would be like RoboCop or Transformers. [35:26] something and like the machines would would you know these these small sprout legs and start shooting exactly and take over humanity and guess what happened like the clocks updated and they were like nope happy new year it's midnight life is gonna go on anyway it's important to remember that sometimes our worst fears aren't always true there's a great mad men scene about that as well where they get the computer installed in the office and the one yeah the one guy loses his mind he gets 51 50 because he thinks the computer is gonna you know it's the same exact thing that's

[35:56] capitalism. We're talking about ways we can make money. We got to make more money year over year. And the media business, it's a little tricky. Have you ever thought about [36:07] you know, puck odds, puck betting. Not necessarily your own Calci or Polymarket platform, but, you know, the way people can get some tips on Bloomberg or whatever, like, [36:18] you know, Puck has it, has this movie at, you know, whatever odds. I got to tell you guys, I listened to your episode with Wiesenthal. I worked at Bloomberg for about a year and a half and I laughed so much. I loved hearing you guys. You loved hearing us ask, what is a Bloomberg terminal? Exactly. The only reason I know what a Bloomberg terminal is, is because I've lived in New York for so long. That's like something you learn when you, if you are not in finance and [36:48] Otherwise, I would have never known. We're talking about the price of the terminal, like the Erewhon smoothie. Like, this costs $32,000? What? And if you go into certain trading floors, it's almost like a sort of, you know, ancient civilization where like the chieftain has like eight terminal screens to sort of show that they're the most important person on the train floor. [37:18] One of my favorite memories of working there, however, was every conference room was named after a market where the terminal was in. So like Shanghai, you know.

[37:26] la atlanta and then every quarter there was a maintenance worker who came around with like an exacto knife uh because underneath the name of the market was a number of terminals they had that were rented in the market at that time and every month they would they exacto out the number and replace it with the new one and you're right it's like 30 000 a screen so you know when they went from like 742 to 761 like that was major coin at the time well what did you guys ask me i can't [37:56] that they care that much, that they need their employees to see. It's only the employees are seeing those numbers go up. But I guess it's good for morale. The original question where I was asking if you were considering having puck odds for sports or film premieres or whatever, is Chanel going to be acquired by LVMH? What are the odds type of thing? The short answer is no, but I think this is not a podcast where we do short answers from what Lauren's told me. [38:26] The prediction market space, which is being defined right now, similar to like, it's actually actually interesting. It's like ride sharing or gaming beforehand, where the companies are really well capitalized and run by great leaders, and they are faster than the regulators. So at some point, the rubber will hit the road, and we'll see what does happen there. But that's not what we do.

[38:56] voice and we want to be able to offer uh you know insight information in you know news you can't get anywhere else from incredibly trusted journalists that you absolutely love and can't live without this would be a diversion to get into that um sort of prediction but i guess i mean i guess because i mean obviously i've been a puck subscriber since like day one and i i mean i think i i guess the the when you think about pushing into these new territories because obviously you [39:26] You've grown quite a lot, you know, as far as like what you're actually covering. Is that are those decisions kind of based on the journalists that you're hiring? Do you know what I mean? Like, is it like this guy is now free or we want this guy? We're going to go make an offer. Is it based on the talent or is it based on the interest area or what comes first? The three things that you look for in in coordination are a trailblazing, trailblazing, pardon me, sort of generational talent. [39:56] you can't just say somebody's great. They have to be like, [40:00] obviously well you're asking people to pay for it you're asking people pay for it and it's not a newspaper so it's like you it has to be great yeah i mean for what it's worth i think that the um uh people pay now i actually think that that media that you don't pay for is um is much more imperiled than the media that you do pay for um i think that that's okay watch your mouth how long gone free wherever you get podcasts three to three days a week go ahead i don't know if we're gonna call us media the um you need you need a remarkable talent you need a market that i think has a

[40:30] that feels underserved. That's crucial. [40:34] And that can mean different things in different spaces. And then you also want a market that has an endemic advertising opportunity and, if possible, has one market that has an experiential need, too, where there's a need for professionals to want to convene, to meet, and eventually probably to do deals and have professional value. So you want... [40:57] Our most successful markets that we're in have all of those factors. Yeah, sure. I mean, that makes sense. That makes sense. But I mean, the airmail stuff, obviously, you worked for Graydon for a long time. It made sense for you to do that deal. And I love airmail. I think it does occupy a space that is necessary. I think Julie is doing a really good job. I think she's great. It's no puck, but it's pretty good. It's no puck, but it's something. But I mean, that's the first time you acquired something. [41:27] Like, you know, because I think a lot of these, I don't want to use a dirty word, but sub stacks are, you know, some of these things are going to get too big for their britches. And if they don't have the capacity to hire their own teams, someone like you can swoop in and put them under the umbrella. Is that something you're looking to do more of? Has Air Mail been successful in your eyes so far? Come on down, Ben Shapiro. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So the short answer, which don't worry, we won't rely on is yes, absolutely. Right. [41:57] been an extraordinary talent. She's the editor-in-chief of Air Mail. She's awesome. She's amazing. She's, she's, uh, she is a true talent. I've been in this business for 25 years. She, she's, um, you, you know, when you see it, she's a true talent. Um, we've actually acquired a number of, um, a couple of small businesses before we acquired Air Mail. Um, our Wallpower, which is our art franchise helmed by Mary Manneker, uh, was born out of a business called Art Market Monitor that we acquired.

[42:27] street paper i guess airmail is like a that was a glamorous totally thing totally they're not apples to apples but just to point out to get to your your second part of your question is that yes we believe that there are a lot of targets in substack that uh we would love to envision inside puck inside airmail maybe they're uh they're a brand that we would want to just preserve um the brand that the creator has created you i think you like you've got your finger on this there are a [42:57] to go to places like Subsac or Beehive when they began to do it. Hey, no one with talent went to Beehive. Come on, let's come on. Well, when we launched in 2021, we wanted to offer the best of both worlds. We realized that elite talent had a lot of optionality and we wanted to give them the opportunity to build a business with enterprise value where they were partners. They were going to be there to help guide the journey. They would be able to put money in their pockets through their own success. And we build a business around them. [43:27] There were other people who wanted to go on their own. I always viewed Substack. I mean, this is probably just because of my background as someone whose parents were writers, someone who had grown up in magazines. I viewed Substack as a gateway drug. You know, I think that it was an opportunity for a lot of creators to go and to be on their own. But another word for that is being a freelance writer, which there's nothing wrong with that. It's so funny that you say that, though, because no one ever says that. And that is exactly what it is. That is what it is.

[43:57] the adult child of freelance writers. And that's a wonderful calling. But the challenge that- Adult children are freelance writers, the few, the proud. We meet in the Presbyterian Church on Wednesdays at noon. Coffee's black. Just show up. It's hard to build enterprise value. To your point, I think that as you get bigger, you have to hire. You don't have economies of scale. It eats into margin. [44:27] We want to be able to be a solution and develop a partners in that route. [44:32] that that's an option i also do think that we're living in a moment when um [44:37] I think in sort of metaphors and frameworks sometimes, but I really do think that the last five to 10 years in media has been like, do you guys remember Pangea from like middle school, like the Big Bang, all that stuff? Is this a Pangea, the landmass? Yeah, the landmass. Yeah. You're both looking at me like you're on Iowa. Okay. [44:57] From athletic stuff like a full-court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in! Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Pros trust the Home Depot for heavy-duty storage solutions for any job site or garage. Right now, get up to 15% off select storage and organization. Impact and water-resistant totes and shelving built to hold up to 2,500 pounds. [45:27] your tools and protect them in the garage on the job site and everywhere in between save time and maximize efficiency with adjustable shelving customized to your business's needs shop and save on pro grade storage at the home depot how pros get more done

[45:43] you [45:44] I didn't know if this was some weird dot-com bubble we missed. You're talking about the classic Pangea. We're dumb. We're not stupid, John. Not everyone remembers Pangea, but there were these large landmasses of media companies in this metaphor. The Big Bang happens. It leads to landmasses of various sizes that over the course of many bazillions of years lead to landmasses that make sense. That rebundling is really happening now in media. [46:14] Ambitiously, Puck wants to play a significant role in that. The Rundle. The Rundle. I mean, we talk about this all the time. At a certain point, it's like, I think, and I think this isn't a good thing, is like it's re-engineering the magazine, so there's multiple voices that are experts under one roof. And that's what Substack, to me, has always lacked. You know, it's funny. [46:34] We always talk about the magazine arts here at Puck. I actually, you know, I feel like they're really coming back in a way that's pretty powerful. I think just given the, like, lines on our foreheads, I think we're all kind of around the same age. Maybe I'm a little bit older than you guys. I hope so, because you got a lot more money than us. So if you're not, it's going to fucking knock me down. John, you look great for the amount of stress you must spend. You do look great. [46:59] If you're listening to Pivot, I know you're older. Not joking. Not joking. [47:04] glow you look like you live in fucking socal yeah you look like you could be in palm beach every friday to sunday that's for sure it's all the tennis courts in the suburbs guys man that's true you're selling us you're selling us yeah yeah we'll get your ball we'll exchange peptide stacks after we hit record okay there are a couple great lessons of the magazine era that i learned from great and that i think are more true than ever um not every every brand has to be great that doesn't mean every brand has to be super duper scale right when we look back at the web

[47:34] and that did really well for time they started out the right size and then um based on uh fundraising demands and and expectations they had to get to a scale in which they kind of caved in upon themselves and it did i agree gawker should have stopped with jezebel we didn't need the car site we didn't need the sports site i agree completely so we think about that a lot of puck that we want we want to grow sustainably obviously you know we want uh double digit revenue growth every single year across our franchises but we also want to make sure that we're making something that is scarce [48:04] at my first, um, [48:06] One of my first pitches, uh, [48:09] when i was pitching the business and probably this is way before covid uh i worked at tpg a private equity company and um i was with a couple of deal partners and uh we were looking at the initial business model [48:20] And I said, you know, at the end of the day, what you really have to do is make something that people love. And they were like, [48:26] okay, hard pass, you know. [48:29] They're like, bro, you got a spreadsheet you can show me or something? I don't really believe in all that love shit. Because it's a little too vague? Is that what you mean? No, well, they will, and they, you know, co-led the series A and were part of the B, so they've been incredible partners, and they believed in it. But what I didn't have, a language was evolving that hadn't quite crystallized yet, that it would turn into something that we all understand now that I think is a business term, a term of art, but a real term, which is fandom, you know. [48:56] was to create professional fandoms for the markets that we're in. You know, you don't just read Lauren because you work in fashion or the beauty industry and you need to know it. You love it. You're obsessed with Lauren. You know, you want to know what she did last night. You want her impressions of the show. It's like that part, that's really, really important. And you have to scale that with a lot.

[49:26] have to um you have to scale that you have to scale that but you have to scale it with a lot of grace and these are lessons that were learned for me in the in the magazine era um and uh it's it's very cool i'm amazed by um you know there are a lot of touches that i think puck has like the headlines that are you know to me were born out of watching you know gradients like headlines [49:56] Headlines, you know, a headline that makes you laugh or feel something. Like, that was the table stakes when I was starting my career. That's all you had. It was, I mean, when I worked at... [50:07] at vanity fair in like 2004 there was a guy named bruce handy was a very talented editor who would write like six selections for eight selection eight right eight headline drafts for every single story you like in the well you know which younger listeners yeah not know was like the back half of the magazine where the you know with the double truck photos uh maybe your listeners probably do know that but but a few people do and then there was one named i didn't know that [50:37] lived in Newport, who would basically top edit Bruce's headlines and write her own headlines. And like in a way that was not condescending, but like a little patronizing, she would star the ones that she thought were pretty good for Graydon. And then eventually would go to his desk and he would just put a check next to the one he liked. Like that was for the headline guys. Like that's just like, yeah, we're putting, we're putting that, that much effort into the headline because that's the only way we're going to get somebody to read this story is the reality. If you don't

[51:07] a lot harder. Well, what I also notice about, about [51:11] puck and well this is a bigger conversation i think in the business in general is sort of like the way that writers are now forced to be sort of camera facing let's say you know what i mean like before you could just be good at your job and write your stories and people would read them now it's a little bit like what's this like obviously now people do podcasts that's different i just mean there's not i i don't think there's a pressure for matt bellany to make tiktoks i i'm [51:41] Matt's on TikTok. I certainly wouldn't, you know, I would never tell him to do that. But he has clips on Reels and YouTube and Twitter. No, but that's from the podcast. Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is there was a point where it was like... What's the diff? Well, it used to be different. It was like you have to figure out a way to make your face known, whereas now a podcast does that without having to be as gross, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let me... [52:09] Let me tell you how I think about it, which is one of the ways that we try and [52:14] think about it and monetize it at [52:16] Ed Puck, for truly elite talent, they have many skills, and you have to recognize what their sort of skill stack is, as it were, [52:27] They're remarkable journalists. They can gather information. They're great writers. They're great podcasters. They're great marketers. They're great conveners. And I think that [52:35] And the last part is actually quite crucial, but underappreciated. They're distributors. Matt Bellany's, what I'm hearing...

[52:44] email franchise, it's coming from Matt. [52:47] Like, if you respond to... if you hit reply, [52:50] It goes right to Matt. You know, he's, and his credibility, and obviously, like, extraordinary talent, but his credibility is, it gets it to you. And that's, like, that's so different than when, [53:04] you know, the result when I started my career. And so, you know, part of our business model and proposition really is that we want to be, we want to be the platform for this elite talent so that they can all, you know, uh, [53:20] embody and amplify the kind of brand halo power of puck but also um lean into what makes them uniquely talented well you let people have an attitude like you know what i'm saying like lauren's gonna say some shit that'll piss somebody off matt matt said the thing about can lion that went viral i've seen that everywhere i agree with you i mean it's fucking funny it's like actually funny that's the thing it's like it's actually funny and sometimes these industries need to get [53:50] that's necessary for almost any business. Well, a Lauren and a Matt, who are two of our biggest stars, and truly like once-in-a-generation talent. They really are. Slow down now. They are, besides YouTube. But no, they are. We're up for sale. Just let us know. They're great. They make a lot of things that are really hard and look really easy. Yeah. I don't think that, you know, Matt's unique,

[54:20] extraordinary credibility allows him to make that joke. And everyone is like, oh, yeah, I agree with him, right? Or until he's right. Well, you can tell that Matt, in a classic way, is not... [54:31] trying to make friends let's say you know i think that's the big complaint about he's less worried about being canceled i mean yeah definitely that but i guess i mean that like the way that all of these you know the jake shanes of the world are getting killed you know because they want to be friends with their subjects you can tell that matt has no interest in being friends with his subjects his job is to report some of them but mostly no unless they're baseball players you can't do what matt does without having uh incredibly deep relationships yeah for sure [55:01] You can't. It's deep relationships earned over decades. But I think relationships and, like, friendships are different, if that makes sense. Like, I think there's, like, a palling around that podcasts encourage that, like, maybe a classic journalist approach, it would never get that far, is how I feel about the way he operates. You know, I think everyone has a different style. I think that people... [55:27] everyone knows matt is the most scrupulous fair guy that that you're gonna find he's also very funny um but he's not ever gonna be um bowled over um yeah yeah yeah and and that's i blame him for a lot because he's made everybody a fucking armchair expert in the movie business and that's that for that it's good for your bottom line but it's bad for my ears and eyes you know guys telling talking to me about fucking opening weekend i'm like dude you work you work at a store like what

[55:57] You don't need to know about this. Like, what are you talking about? But that's a testament to the reach. [56:27] agencies is a sign of the breadth of his talent. Well, that's what I was going to say. It's like, if you got bozos reading it and you got the guys making the decisions reading it, then that's it. You got the full spread. You won at that point. Well, you mentioned, we were talking about magazines earlier. A lot of magazines have had to really shift more into... [56:46] throwing parties and magazine editors are now hosts of events and things like that. And you mentioned experiential being a part of Puck's overall revenue. How big of a part of your overall revenue is experiential? [57:00] You know, we don't normally break out our revenue mix publicly, even on an investor-minded show like this one. [57:10] Rev mix? It's a material part of the business. A lot of the experiential is downstream of the commercial business. So, you know, some of the advertising we sell is matrixed in with events. Some are sold separately.

[57:30] can depend on a number of inputs, but it's an important and growing part of the business. I think, look, I'm not Nostradamus. A lot of people in this industry say the same thing that we do, which is that convening is really, really important if you do it in a high-end way. You have to make things that people want to do. I like you. You use the word convening, and that's a really sexy way to put it. I like that. Oh, thanks. I like that. Is that an original, or did somebody teach you that? God, I can't remember when the first time I learned the [58:00] I don't mean that. I just, I just mean, I didn't know if somebody was thrown around. You're like, you know what? I see a way to apply that. I like it. Puck, uh, Puck, [58:11] Provides a lot of, you know, I think at our core, we provide business intelligence to a professional audience in a way that offers them the sort of textures and narrative voice and wit and mirth that they can't get anywhere else. And so a lot of our experiential business is built around... [58:30] Like, [58:30] you know uh putting people in professional settings where they can exchange ideas and and and relationships oh yeah part of part of pay part of paying is that you get to be in the room with like-minded people that are in the same industry that you might not have come across otherwise i mean it's a simple i've been in some great puck dinners where i sat next to people i'm middled out of some tables that you've been at puck dinners i didn't deserve to be at them yeah definitely which dinners were you at um i've been to i've been to a few sherman sherman the last one oh

[59:00] I was sitting next to the CEO of Skims. It was Mr. Joe in LA. John's going to get off the call and be like, all right, Lauren, we're going to tighten the belt a little bit on this shit because these guys should not be there. I was wearing a suit, John. I was wearing a suit. We said industry leaders. I don't know what you meant by that. You're very adamant. Did your suit have sleeves? Just curious. You can go either way. This was a sleeved piece, this particular one. It was one of his classic sleeved pieces. It was hot. It was hot, though. It's like a wild thing in Major League. [59:30] you know league but no whatever ever you know everyone's got a different look i'm glad i'm glad you're there and had a good time so you get a flavor of what i'm discussing that that these are places we want to create environments that you want to attend um because your time is limited but also there's professional value as well yeah yeah rich people want to meet interesting people interesting people want to eat meat rich people it's all there um so you you were talking about hiring all the people the shermans the belonies to all these positions and kind of let them do their thing because you trust them do you feel like because you do that you haven't felt the [1:00:00] CTO at Puck? We have a CTO. As in chief taste officer? Oh.

[1:00:10] Jason's looking for work. So I think this is low-key him soft-selling. The remainder of the questions will be employment-related. Are there any podcasts you're eyeballing for acquisition at the moment, John? We can segue the conversation right now. I'd love to learn more, Jason. Do you [1:00:30] on his behalf, so you can just talk to me. He's not answering any questions unless it goes through me. I'm not forward-facing currently for the brand. Yeah, we'd love to. [1:00:43] Taste officer. [1:00:44] was a serious question. Is that something, obviously it's a funny thing that people are talking about now, but companies are hiring people to give their brand taste. Obviously it's more so [1:00:55] a tech startup or an AI company and less so a media brand. But what are you thinking about? Yeah, we're probably going to skip that one. [1:01:04] You're like, headcount's kind of tight right now. That's not top of the pyramid for us. That seems like something AI can do for us. Damn. Real talk. What is the... All right. So you've been doing this a long time. That's a good slip right there, John. You've been doing this a long time. What is your daily intake looking like? Are you reading four [1:01:25] before you leave for the office? Like how crazy is it for you to try to keep up? You know, I read a lot. I read what you think I read. I like that. The new Playboy is great. I couldn't agree more. [1:01:38] They're doing great things over there. Turn that thing around, man. They're doing great things over there at Playboy. God, I wish every My Monday morning diet fucking email is like, I read what you think I read. I listen to the podcast you think I'd listen to. You know exactly what I fucking do. I'm not going to blow your mind.

[1:01:55] There's no secret. You're doing the regular stuff to stay informed and blah, blah, blah. But I mean, I think you do have somewhat of a purview across a lot of things. So I didn't know if there was any nooks and crannies. [1:02:25] We have a large infrastructure at this point that's able to support Lauren, Matt, Dylan, Mary, and their partners to ensure that they're doing the best work of their careers. But I don't... [1:02:38] As long as you're consuming information across a number of categories, political news, which maybe read out of sort of just a guilt, natural, personal, patriotic interest. But I think that what's important to me is to read journalism, but also not to only exclusively read journalism. I'm very interested in analyst reports about media and financial companies. [1:03:08] the industries where we have, you know, leading products, the way that the pros who work in those industries would, you know, and there, because there actually is often like, this is, this is one of, I think, things I'm most proud of that puck is that we have established this position that that's almost in many cases above journalism, sort of between journalism and equity research, so that you're along with, you know, narrative and, and recognizing these are, you're getting

[1:03:38] you can see the strategy you know um a lot of i'm not trying to put down any peers here you know in other companies but please do i wasn't thinking that at all but now that's all i'm thinking it's not um it's it's not binary things don't always happen um because somebody made a bad decision it's usually uh there is a complex uh uh spider web of decisions that had to uh be made in a compressed period of time and uh and so i i try and when you're a business owner uh by the way [1:04:08] that people do the best they can. And sometimes there are elegant outcomes. But I read a lot. I wonder sometimes how many thousands of words I read a day, many, tens and tens of thousands. And look at bazillions of spreadsheets too. You learn over time to consume information really, really quickly. And you also know when you've consumed enough at an acceleration [1:04:38] quick decision and you have to know when you can't make that decision too which is actually not to overshare but that's a that's a critical no i mean no i mean that's that's why you're the boss all right what about any trashy shit though because i mean you know i know but you know like what's the are you are you looking at doom wall on instagram which podcast you listen to a 2x that's you know again i i wish i was this is the part lauren warned me that like i was you're a call you're a call her daddy day one subscriber it's okay you know it's funny i got to know alex

[1:05:08] I really like her and Matt. I feel like she, uh, her, her like media intelligence is totally underestimated. Like she's someone who is going to be successful for decades in this industry. I don't have, um, she'll be running Paramount plus one day. God willing. [1:05:25] If she needs a chief tastemaker, I'll put your list on top of the pile. Taste officer. Sorry, sorry. That's what I meant. Executive taste officer. [1:05:35] Executive taste officer. Yeah, there you go. He's wearing his badge. You just can't see it. I'm not the most high-minded person in the world. I think if you talk to my friends, they would say that I'm actually like, I play against type in a lot of ways. [1:05:55] I am. I'm not. I read a lot of trashy things. I'm very interested in a lot of trashy things. It's interesting to see for me to see how they course to the culture. I think that, you know, there's a high, low matrix that most people who work in media sort of live by. Mine's not a ton different on a personal side. But on the other hand, like I recognize that Puck is making products that have to be incredibly relevant to, you know, [1:06:19] the most influential people in society we have first party data on who our subscribers are in markets from politics to fashion to hollywood it's the top of the top of the top so you gotta yeah sure so you just gotta well all right so where's where's lebron going oh man wouldn't you love to know i it's china it seems like i mean a lot of the signs are pointing back to um

[1:06:42] to LA, which does not seem like the right decision to me. Like the Clippers? No, he said today, oh, you miss it. He said today he's not going to LA, but he's going somewhere. That happened like an hour ago. Oh, you guys are ahead of me. Sorry. Well, then your guess is as good as mine. I don't know when the show's coming out. I don't want to look stupid. I think if the Knicks had lost, there was a real chance he'd come to New York. He's not going to do it now. Did you go to any of the finals games? No, it's funny. I try like hell. I didn't get in. The closest I got [1:07:12] My kid, my older kid to the parade, which passed by our office. I've been, it's fine. Lauren put this on the approved topic list because I grew up in New York. So I'm a lifelong Nick fan. And I was like, you know, at the age in 94 when we got so close. So this is big for you. Huge, huge. [1:07:30] you know uh it's hard to for for me and people in my generation to believe that there is a greater nick than ewing you know and like there is now like this it's uh he's totally totally been just i've heard a lot of debate about about jalen brunson and where he stands i think you can't i think you can't debate it i think that um you know ewing didn't get the chip and and uh he and all these like all these miss finger the rick smith's finger roll like you know we we love

[1:08:00] uh a bit you know um playing alongside jordan uh i mean do you guys remember um i think game five of the 94 series was right was during the oj chase and so that was like the one game when we blew out the rockets um and i remember as a kid like couldn't watch that uh i think i got it on the radio like that that was the the absolute highest point of nick fandom imaginable like you're on the [1:08:30] clinch and then... [1:08:32] Brunson eclipsed it. And when we were down 13 points, uh, [1:08:38] We knew we were going to do it. It didn't look good. That felt like the OJ trial. You're down 15, 13 points when you come out on top. Maybe that's, it's a, it was never in doubt. I think we knew all along. There was never, there's never a doubt. No, it was, uh, I, I live pretty close to the parade route. So I was, uh, enraged at the difficulty it caused me. But when I talked to guys like you who grew up a, you know, disgruntled fan, I do, I can see the joy is real. [1:09:08] beautiful office tower on Greenwich street and looking up, [1:09:10] church towards west broadway was a it was a sea of uh blue and orange it was crazy there was so many fucking people all right so as we wind down here what let's just what magazines do you think are going to survive we can go hearst we can go condé we can go independent what what do you number one new yorker you know is my vote of course what else what else you got will survive um you know they're all going to exist a lot longer than you imagine they'll continue to be

[1:09:40] are overnight. They're not, they're, they're much more gradual. And, and you guys see this, cause I listened to the show that there are a lot of, there's a lot of sort of use cases for, for print that there weren't before. They're just going to be smaller businesses, right? That, that's obviously happened. Um, the, the new houses love the New Yorker. It's a part of their, the family's, you know, public facing identity. Um, that's not going anywhere. The Atlantic is the same way. Um, I think that Hearst is a lot less precious about its print business. [1:10:10] become more and more digital and less and less print. I think they've maintained their print identity because there's still some economics tied into it. There are a number of advertisers that really do want their creative to show up that way. There are more, I say this as someone who used to work in this industry, there are more magazines than there are people who want to read them. Eventually, that will rectify and it'll be healthy for the two-sided marketplace guys. That'll be healthy for both sides. People who have the talent will be in places where it's the most [1:10:40] best deal you're right you're right i i just think it's a funny i don't know i just think it's a funny time because it's it's sort of we're at that i mean it feels like an inflection point that's lasted for a long time but where it's like my our general generation that still holds on to it and thinks it's important is we're just getting older and older and the young people are sort of discovering it in a different way maybe you're appreciating it a different way but i don't know if those things are going to ever meet in the middle you can't be nostalgic about media it's

[1:11:10] you'd be surprised how many people are uh late breaking to that realization and i have a i have a 12 year old and an eight year old and they don't just watch youtube all the time they sit down on [1:11:23] throw youtube from the older ones phone onto the screen it's a totally different way of consuming than we ever did and they're not watching shows if you said to you know they're barely aware of what nickelodeon is they're they're they're not you know um shit they're a lot of the um traditional franchises that we grew up with are um are not relevant to their world like you have to be they're like get this ren and stimpy out of here old ass like i ain't watching that i'm sure there's a nickelodeon experience uh near us that actually is pretty sweet and that's the only way they know [1:11:53] But yeah, that's irrelevant to them. And even like, [1:11:57] You know, [1:11:58] A lot of franchises are the Netflix shows. I'm just saying if you want to be [1:12:04] If you want to build successful media, you cannot be sentimental or sanctimonious. It's just not helpful. Yeah. No, I mean, that's good advice. I needed to hear that too, John. A little slap in the face for Jason. Let's talk about cold food as we land this plane, John. Oh, you need to do your homework. I'm a big food lover myself, avid home cook, and I hear that you... [1:12:25] exclusively consume... [1:12:28] Warm foods cold? This is funny. [1:12:32] Hold on, hold on, hold on, Jason. You're saying that foods that would be traditionally eaten warm, John prefers cold. Maybe the spaghetti meatballs comes out and we let it come down to room temp before we start twirling? Fake news, guys. No, what you're referring to is I have a very religious no hot lunches rule. Because of the smell? No, no. Only crazy people eat warm lunch. Damn.

[1:12:58] Even in the winter months, John, even in the winter months? No way. No, it creates mental fatigue for me. So if I'm in a serious environment, like if I'm having lunch with an investor or a client or someone who... You got to be on. If we got a check writer across the table from us, we ain't getting the soup. Keep the bisque away. No, definitely not having soup. But if I'm in a situation where it's not a safe space for room temperature lunch, which is the real sort of threshold, [1:13:28] Then I will order something and I will wait till it cools down. And I'll let you eat and enjoy yourself. I'm not here to make you uncomfortable. It's your lunch too. You can enjoy yourself. This is okay. Wow. I have a similar philosophy with the way lunch foods that are heavy weigh me down and certain things I avoid. See, that's the first step towards freedom. So I always considered it to be like heavy foods versus light foods. And you're opening my eyes to temperature play. It's temperature. Temperature is the main culprit is what you're saying. [1:13:58] It's temperature. Turn the oven off, babe. I'm having lunch after this. Everyone wants a nice, satisfying lunch. I just think that if you're getting something piping hot out of the oven, I just have a hard time getting back to work and focusing at the level that I need to. And what you're right about, because you are betraying your sources here a little bit, is that not everyone responds to this with the normalcy that I think I deserve.

[1:14:28] I told you I'm on the same side I'm fascinated and I want to learn more yeah this is reasonable what I think is going on here too is that I'm a pretty normal basic person and this is like my one big quirk and I think that it catches people off guard and I hold tight to it quirks are all I care about John if it works for you it works for you there's no reason to deny that yeah thanks and hey by the way breakfast and dinner no restrictions [1:14:58] we want. Okay. I'm letting my fucking hair down at breakfast. I'm having some oatmeal. Do you have like sort of prescribed lunches that you stick to like your big three or do you, do you swim in a vast sea of cold plates or do you, [1:15:11] Is it pretty regimented? It doesn't have to be cold. Again, room temperature. I mean, non-hots. Jason, come on, bro. Non-hots, I should have said. Respect. Jason, respect our guests. Jesus Christ. You know, our puck's second office was in Chelsea, right next to Momoya. You guys big Momoya? Yeah, I've been to that office. I know. Yeah, yeah. I've been to a party there. Momoya is Momoya. So sushi a lot. Salad, I don't know. I'm like, I'm not a help nut, but I do what I can. I'm not getting any younger guys. What's your caffeine intake? [1:15:41] in there after a cup of coffee no no that's gross is that your thing no i no no i just you're so productive i just want to pick up some tricks you know but you know you don't smoke cigarettes then no no no no definitely not no i i drink a lot of coffee i wake up very early and i drink a lot of coffee and actually i have to i have like um uh self-imposed rule i try not to drink it uh after uh three although how early are we talking are we are we mark walberging oh no there's no like

[1:16:11] You know, I feel like I have to... [1:16:14] be responsive to people who you're firing at six yeah i'm working is your shirt tucked in at six i wear the same thing every day it's another quirk uh so um it takes a lot of the choice in the morning out of the well we got with blue polo that's all right that's a similar jason i also subscribe to the blue polo what else is what's on the bottom the rest guys you know um but i'm i'm [1:16:38] And I get a lot of work done. And then... [1:16:42] I [1:16:44] I think like it's school, go run and go to work. What brand is a polo, John? This is a Sid Mashburn polo. Oh, repping ATL, baby shot to Sid. Yeah, that's right. Friends of the pod. I've got like 10 or 12 if you want one, Jason. I bet we're not the same guy. [1:16:57] Jason, he knows you're looking for work so you can spare a polo for a young man. You don't even have to wash them. Just thank you. We just really appreciate it, John. All mine have sleeves, though, so it might not work. No, he can do that himself. Don't worry about that. Look, I just finished a hike and came down here. [1:17:14] on and also when we did our episode with Graydon Carter it was in the dead of summer as hot as hell and I was wearing a similar wife beater and he could not stop insulting it it was really funny. No that's on the no fly zone for him. One of the best moments of how long gone was Graydon Carter being disgusted with our tattoos to the point of next time I saw him he brought it up Yeah people don't know this about Graydon but he's very Canadian in a lot of ways and like that's and the body art thing is

[1:17:44] shouldn't have tattoos and i learned that he mentioned it a lot in his memoir about yeah i was like this guy fucking hates tattoos more than i mean maybe anything in the world which is it's cool a good course you guys have other charms though so i think it's a little late to turn that one around but you guys make up for it in other ways definitely late for sure that one uh all right john thank you for joining us on how long gone is a pleasure uh if you want to check out puck you go to is it what is it puck.news is the website yes sign up sign up pay for the what's [1:18:14] Inner Circle membership is $250, which will get you access to airmail as well. And I couldn't recommend it more. There you go. All right. Thanks, John. We appreciate the time and we'll see you soon. All right. My pleasure, guys. Thank you. [1:18:41] Relax and let Kroger Delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. [1:18:46] We start with only the freshest items. [1:18:49] Then carefully pack your order in our refrigerated trucks. [1:18:53] And our cool trucks keep your food fresh right to your door. [1:18:57] Fresh groceries your way with Kroger Delivery. [1:19:02] And right now, you can save $20 on your first delivery order.