967. - Matthew Schnipper

[00:17] How long gone Chris Black coming to you from bloody England yet again. I am at a hotel [00:30] If I'm not mistaken, just down the street from our friends at Bister Village. Okay, that's over in Ensham Park, Whitney? Yeah, sure, exactly. Yeah, of course. Of course. You know, Ensham Park, Whitney. You know the spot, but I got here at fucking, you know, I landed, felt like shit, had three coffees, took a dip in the pool, laid in the sun for a little bit, hit the gym, and I was back. I feel the jet lag melts off when you're able to get into a body of water is a thing, a belief I hold. [01:00] Travel hack. Just make sure you stay. Make sure your manor has a pool where the temp is where you like it. Yeah, I'm looking at some photos. I just Googled it. It does look very nice. It's one of those places where... [01:13] I want it all to myself. Like, I don't want other guests to be there, but it is simply too big. So, like, I guess I'm just saying, like, I wish this was just, like, [01:21] a 2,000 square foot, three bedroom home. - With the grounds. - But had all this vibe. And then I would, I guess I could live there. So yeah, it looks like Gwen Stefani's cool music video. Why exactly are you staying over here in Ensham Park, Whitney, Oxfordshire? - One night in Oxfordshire, as they say. There's a... [01:44] I'm here with Range Rover. We're going to Wimbledon for the women's semifinal on Thursday. Oh, bittersweet. I'm looking at some sort of, we're viewing an automobile tonight, because I think this is sort of near where the JLR factory is, I believe. I'm here with Range Rover. We're viewing a vehicle tonight. I will say, I will say, getting picked up from the airport in a new Range Rover

[02:14] anything anything else and it's not i mean obviously especially in london yeah it just it feels it feels right you know what i mean it's not bulletproof well i didn't ask i was hoping it would be bulletproof but i'm not totally sure but anyway the weather's beautiful here people are fucking in a good mood um and uh last time we were in town it was a bit bit rainy but we had some moments of sun so is it it's more pool weather happening now yeah it's like prime time i mean to [02:44] feeling like I'm going to pass out from walking 15 minutes. This is a joy. And that has nothing to do with your cardio, which is elite. This is all humidity and heat. I would say I'm going to blame. Yeah. I didn't check that either. Much like if the car was bulletproof, but I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say yes. What color Chelsea tractor did we get? What make and model? Black. Straight up black. Black brand new. Black brand new with the TVs and the headrests and the backseat. [03:14] intended you're in the wagmobile we're gonna put on yeah we're gonna put on lilo and stitch in the back and not a peep out of chris till we get to the hotel i was watching i was watching some of my favorite youtubers all the way all the way from heathrow to to oxfordshire he has all his favorite snacks don't need to it's in dog mode it's in it's in chris mode it's all good the one thing i'll say the one thing i'll say that i'm your body must be in not a wonderland right now that yeah in terms of flight i mean i did work out in the gym is had everything i was fine but the

[03:44] room is beautiful but it has like an outdoor area and it has a small outdoor fireplace and if but when you're alone it's like what am i gonna what am i gonna light a fire for you know what i mean like who am i doing this for could i do it my matthew mcconaughey literally could i do it i think so would i like to have a dusk you know in a scotch out there why chomp on a cigar absolutely but i can't they have cigars on the menu here no joke you can order a cigar on the menu like a [04:14] never seen that before i've never seen that only at the estelle manor and i love this country house slash hotel slash private members club and michelin recommended restaurant wow 108 rooms jesus christ okay so i'm i have no idea what this is i'm only saying all this stuff so they can extend a lovely invitation to my uh my wife and i you know we're basically like callum turner and [04:44] and I would love to start a fire and I will have a non-alcoholic. You'll have an NA scotch as well. Two NA scotches, please, good barman. I mean, you know how much I love maintaining a fire at the hearth. I mean, manning the hearth is something I've seen you do several times. It doesn't make your back as big as Callum Turner's, but it gets you closer, I think is what's important. No, that's part of my recovery, all right? Oh, I see. It's the cold plunge for you. Manning the hearth is more of a recovery tool. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, that's cool, man.

[05:14] Um, yeah, and congrats to England. I'm glad they brought it home. The vibe is probably high over there. America lost yesterday. I'm scared because I'm going to be here. Cucked by Belgium. I'm going to be here for the game, so I have to go watch it. [05:26] And I feel like that could be something that I don't recover from. When is the Saturday? You have to go watch it? Well, I mean, if you're here and, you know. Right, right, right. Conrad wants to go to the Fat Badger. How could you say no, you know? [05:40] Okay. Who are they playing? Oh, they're playing Norway. Oh, mate. This is going to be quite the match. Absolutely biblical. Yeah. You thought Dr. Congo was hot. Wait until you meet Norway. I really liked. [05:56] funny shit and that getting the red card shit is and then losing to belgium is just it's too good it's all the way around a victory for the u.s in many ways yeah we over in manhattan david shows reporting a building is dangerously close to collapsing is that in midtown is that it was like 42nd street or something like that yeah 42nd and second i believe there's a building that could possibly collapse the old pfizer building follow the money oh i'm saying i didn't okay interesting [06:26] Batteries out, huh? Yeah, I'm concerned for all of Manhattanites. You know, it gets this hot. I mean, it's hot enough. It's humid enough. The bricks start melting. You know what I mean? It's new shit. Shit we hadn't seen before. The brick. Melt the brick down? Melt the brick down. 17-5. Yes, exactly. Actually, you know, speaking of 17-5, you were talking about the 19-year-old guy who's

[06:56] the valet at the local hotel, not a care in the world. You know what I mean? You were saying this on the podcast last week. Yeah, yeah. It's a certain kind of guy that I like. [07:05] Not sexually. I don't even need to pause that sentence. I'll let the spiritual planet and the universe pause you for that. But I feel like... [07:15] This is a good idea for like a character and I feel like I want to have, I mean obviously you and I can't write this because we're not amazing writers of this type of story. [07:26] But we should pitch this to Brad Easton-Ellis. [07:30] Because he would just rip through this thing. Shards coming out 8.5 on Hulu. That's the problem. More key art. Nobody gives a fuck about Shards anymore. It looks like some fucking teen drama, like CW shit. But I'm saying that's where this character would exist, in that kind of world. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. I mean, they could also exist in any modern world. I want it to be modern. I want him to be, you know, I know how you like guys from like South Carolina, you know, whatever. The Ritz Charleston. When I met the two. When I met the two. He's got a friend named Goose. [08:00] I met the two brothers at Primland and Virginia who had both injured themselves out of college sports, and they were recalibrating over the summer, getting pussy and playing golf. Are you kidding? Me and Peyton are recalibrating over the summer. Literally, one was played basketball, blew his knee out. One was a pitcher and blew his shoulder out. I'm not kidding. This is real. At least you got it. All right, valets. Any of you fucking— Yeah, we got tires. It's time for valets. I know you guys are out of work. Hollywood's crumbling.

[08:30] You know what I mean? It's like the state, but valets. I can see it now. I can see it now. Do you think that... [08:36] It's okay. I mean, when we go... Obviously, if this existed in Bret Easton Ellis' 1980s Los Angeles, it would just be white guy with blonde hair, blue eyes. The whole entire fleet of valets is just white guys with blonde hair. No, we got a whole... [08:52] No, that's the cool thing about our version. But the 2026 version, we got to have wheelchair, blue hair, motherfucker. No, I got the lesbian chick with a face tat. I got the guy who's selling drugs as a valet. I got the white boys who got hurt playing sports. I got the shy Christian guy who's getting kind of turned out by his new friends. We could do this all day. The boss, you know, the boss is a down on his luck guy who does okay, but he's divorced. He's got a kid. It's hard. [09:22] we could do this all day we could do this all day filipino guy out there he's parking the car his friend comes over we're maybe we're switching the wheels out you know what i mean pulling the turbo off that gt3 you know exactly all right we have a guest today uh friend of the show former guest [09:37] Matt Schnipper's returning. He's got a new book, Rise Above, that comes out, I think, any day now. July 21st, he says. All right, Jason, let's give him a buzz, and we will go from there. [09:51] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our old dogs over at Squarespace. Jason, I spend every waking minute of my day surfing the World Wide Web. I'm looking at social media, but you know me, I'm old school.

[10:04] I'm still checking out websites, baby. I type in that URL. I click. I surf. I find information. I delete information. It never ends with the internet. And most of the best websites that I come across were built on Squarespace. Use Squarespace and their beautiful websites to do some crazy stuff. You have a vision and you want to build a website for your new crazy business or whatever. But you could also, you know, let's say your dog is having a gender reveal party and you [10:34] where there's a rich FAQ section and a place where people can donate and view the registry. Or maybe even your wedding, you know? We all need a wedding website. It's just a thing that has to happen. It's a thing that goes down. And why not make it look better than all of your friends... [10:51] invitations and websites this year only on Squarespace. Shit on the homies using Squarespace. So go to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. [11:06] Oh, baby, it is summer, Jason. We're peaking right now. It's July 4th weekend. It's hot as hell outside, but things do feel easier. The days are a little more relaxed, and I'm sure you can agree, Jason. I find myself reaching for the same comfortable go-anywhere staples again and again, and that's why... [11:24] we keep returning to the altar of quince. They focus on well-made essentials that naturally become those everyday staples that you live in all season long, no matter what the season is. Yeah, Chris, I'm tangled up in linen over here. And this linen, it's European and we're breathable. You know, you don't want to... Sometimes you don't want to wear shorts. Maybe it's a little bit more of a formal lunch or whatever it is. You got the beach club and you want to go to dinner, but you don't want to be wearing some heavy jeans or pants.

[11:52] Some beautiful linen is right there for you. Rotate it into your summer look. And those are starting at just $34. Get some nice, lightweight, soft tees to live in. You know, throw a little sweater on over the shoulders at night when it gets nippy. Everything at Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middleman. So you are only paying for exceptional quality. Not brand BS. [12:22] Oh, [12:23] Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash howlongforfreeshipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada. That is quince.com slash howlongforfreeshipping and 365-day returns. [12:41] quince.com slash how long. [12:44] you [12:45] Okay, I think we're good. So you said you're at work right now. You were on the work computer. What is the work nowadays, Matthew? [12:54] Are we on the record? Are we going? Yeah, we're on the record. I see a whiteboard, so now you're really fucked. We are OR, on record. We know you got a job now. Don't worry, we're not going to look at the whiteboard. Does that mean you don't want to talk about it? No, I have a job. Can I go off the record for a minute? It's not really how it works. No, that doesn't how it works here. Yeah, no, I have a job. I'm the culture editor at WNYC and Gothamist. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay, real traditional shit. Yes. We were talking to John Kelly from Puck last week,

[13:24] about the the role of chief taste officer and you're not too far away from that over there huh yeah that's um i'm hoping that we'll change my title to that when my review happens in the fall yeah i'm gonna when my review happens i have a few notes for my boss and one of them is i would like a title change uh it doesn't need to come with a salary bump because it's fake but if you could okay so this is wnyc like the public radio station and you're bringing some of that culture [13:54] listening to hear about what's going on in the news. And then all of a sudden, uh, grew learning about the return of, uh, [14:01] saint vitus the the metal club yeah that's that's my job can actually i would like to talk about that because i've had the unfortunate experience of going there before um and how does how does a club return is it a new space or is it like just it's returning in name and it's a floating it's a moving target they've been doing that since they closed i think let me let me say something no offense to the saint vitus ownership but bro that's like being a curator with no [14:31] to both of you yes so they have a new space uh opening later this year either in august or september um in in bush okay are they coming are they are they trying to come for brooklyn paramount's chokehold on the hardcore and heavy music scene is that what i i don't know that that do you really think the [14:50] I mean, I know they had a culture boy answer the question. I know they had a lot of no effects.

[14:54] concerts at Paramount. - No effects, okay. - Not Brooklyn Paramount, I'm sorry. No, it's not Brooklyn Paramount, it's the other, what's it fucking called? [15:02] uh this is why i was confused my bad i fucked up i fucked up i'm sorry i don't remember what it's called it's in brooklyn monarch brooklyn monarch oh the monarch oh yeah that's maybe a different audience to some degree i think vitus is a slightly older audience with can you break down the looks of the different audiences please [15:19] I mean, it's like Crest Punk versus Metalheads. You know, it's cousins, certainly, but it's not... I've only been to Broken Paramount once. I don't live too far from there, so I'm often looking to see... [15:32] who is headlining. And it's often people I've never heard of, which I find it's impressive. I've been there a lot, and they got a sick gym for the bands. Oh, really? In the building. Yeah, I saw... [15:42] I mean, I saw Geese there, of course, with every other white guy. I can't believe you weren't there. No, I wasn't. I saw Dive there. I saw you. The last time I saw you in person was at a Cameron Winkler show, though. That was before the hype, baby. We were there. Ground floor. I was interviewing him that day. Oh, yeah. I forgot you were going to interview him, and you didn't know how it was going to go, or you'd already interviewed him? Oh, no. It went bad. I knew how it went. And then we did a follow-up the next day, which was better. But I was following him around. I felt like... [16:11] Like it was, it was kind of funny. You know who I talked to? I was at a church that night and I talked to the pastor, which is my favorite conversation I had for that. Wasn't it like a big girl, lesbian pastor? Cause it was like a green point church. [16:23] Yeah. She's like, we're here to serve the community. That's what she said. Okay, Zoran. Yeah, it sounds like she wanted to make a little scratch on the side. Let's pass the plate around. Not mad, though. Mama wants a trip to Turkey. Well, do you think he was being difficult on purpose, or do you think he's a kid and just... Okay. You think it's just who he is? Yeah, I think he's finding, you know. I think he's certainly done a lot of finding himself since then, but that was, you know, over a year ago, I think, right? Yeah, it was a while ago. Yeah, it was a while ago.

[16:53] Yeah, we went and he and I chatted and I went to his concert again. [16:58] at a church in Greencoyne in Brooklyn. Where did you guys meet for your interview? On the background of this... [17:03] bar around the corner and he was very late. So we talked for a few minutes. He really didn't have much to say. And then he was stressed because he had to go sound check at the church. And then we talked the next afternoon on the phone and that was better. Did he drink? Did you drink? Did no one drink? [17:19] No drinking. No drinking? No. What kind of journalist are you, bro? You gotta get this guy sauced. I thought you were cool, man. No. You thought I was cool? I didn't mean that in the literal sense more in like a dazed and confused McConaughey sense. It's like you thought. [17:35] I think it was a Coca-Cola situation, which I think is classic. A little caffeine to get you going, get you chatting. A music journalist drinking a Coke? Oh, baby. All right, Cameron Crowe, pump the brakes. [17:48] Okay, well, speaking of St. Vitus and metal and all that stuff, when I was reading your book, you mentioned finding a hobby later on. [17:59] of you know digging for vintage clothing getting your depop reseller on but then earlier in the book you mentioned sort of a purging of all of your dope metal tees over the years your cannibal corpse long sleeves is and your you know mortician yes turtlenecks and whatever it might be were you giving that stuff away or were you selling that as well and if you were giving it away do you regret

[18:29] yep well could have called me but go ahead okay I mean have you guys I don't know you guys did so my book did you tell the listeners what this is about [18:38] No, no, no. Okay. We'll let you do that. That's kind of your problem. Yeah. I think as I'm reminded of every single day of my life, you know, my book is a book about what happened in my life after. [18:51] My 22-month-old son died very suddenly. And... [18:58] Obviously, there have been lots and lots and lots of books about grief... [19:02] Um, what I was hoping to do with this book is both to figure out kind of what happened, um, [19:08] In my own life, he died of a brain aneurysm from something, a condition he was born with called an AVM. We would not have ever known this was going to happen. [19:16] um and obviously it kind of turned to the life of my wife and [19:20] my life and my wife's life upside down. [19:22] But what we found was that the sort of [19:25] The thing that I wanted to write about it kind of catalog and try to [19:29] understand is what this meant in the much smaller... [19:33] kind of just like almost dumber moments. Like we moved... [19:37] we had planned to move right before he died, which we did do. And then, [19:41] All of a sudden, I'm like unpacking everything. I'm like, Jason, what you're talking about is I had all of these shirts. And so I'm looking. I had this one... [19:48] Napalm Death [19:49] T-shirt in there, you know, [19:51] I love Napalm Death, but it's this shirt and it has people impaled on different kind of swords. You know the one. Do you know which one I'm talking about? I think so, yeah. Yeah, it's like, I forget exactly what it is. I haven't seen it for a while. I'm looking at it and...

[20:06] Cannibal Corp shirts where it's like people like eating, you know, the insides of people, like people with like skulls like and I looked at it and I was like, this is. [20:15] Disney World. I was like, this is ridiculous. I was like, these people have no... You have no proprietary ownership over... [20:23] terror. I was just like, this is a cartoon. This is a pantomime of this. And I was disgusted by it. Literally, I was like, [20:33] This is a joke. Like, I cannot believe. Look, man, I never liked that bull. I never liked that bullshit either. It always felt a little fake to me. So I'm glad you caught up. You know, and I liked it. Like, and I've come back around to it. There's some things that I think I have a better relationship with now than I used to. Some of those different bands and things like that. [20:48] But literally, friends were at our house a couple days after we moved in at our apartment, and I'm unpacking. [20:54] And I gave stuff away to my friends. I was like, I don't want this. Like, this is a joke. Like, [20:59] you guys don't know what pain is. And I had, you know, it was this really kind of like, [21:03] almost blustery feeling that I had where I was like, I can't wear this. This isn't me. And like these people, like, I mean, you guys know cannibal corpse. It was, you know, of course it's, it's a hood on, but like, you know, the thing or the corpse grinder, he has an Instagram. It's just filled with him taking his family to this world. And it's great. I'm glad corpse writers have a good time, but I was like, this is not my life. It's hard to support a punishing death metal band. [21:29] run by Disney adults. It feels contradictory. Right, you know. Well, I mean, which is cool, and I remember, you know, you talking about that, and it's interesting for you to be like, these guys are all fucking posers, because it is, you know, it is mostly a bunch of posers who are, you know, it's just regular people, and they love writing songs about, you know, eating entrails of aborted fetuses and things like that, but did you find yourself running towards...

[21:55] true Norwegian black metal or like metal created by people. Real shit. Yeah. People who are not Disney adults, bitch ass, gay ass corpse grinder. I got really into, uh, immolation for a while. Period. [22:17] Which is a band I really liked. I felt like there was for some reason, like kind of more of a, uh, [22:22] security there this is awesome because your friends your your friends also couldn't be like i don't want your shit you pussy like i thought you really fucked with this you know what i mean they had to be like okay yeah i'll take you got no primus tees or nothing what's up look it was a strange experience to just sort of all of a sudden find the thing that you kind of really love to be sort of so no that's a that's a wild result that happened to me with the bon appetit universe right all of a sudden you go hey i know you're joking but like oh no he's not you're not joking [22:52] the thing that you love, you're like, oh, all these people are posers. And I don't even think that that is... [22:58] I'm not even sure that that is like capital T true, but at that moment I had never been more kind of like... [23:05] disgusted by this stuff and so i got rid of it so i gave a lot of it away um i don't think [23:11] I have since sold more stuff, but I think everything in that point, I just gave thanks to people. No, it is a fascinating way to sort of deal with grief or something you would never expect to kind of come on, let's say. I would never expect that. No. I do regret...

[23:29] I don't know if I regret. There's an I Hate God hoodie that I gave somebody and I do wish I had that still. That one's got a sting, snipper. Yeah. I was just like, get rid of that. I bought later [23:41] And I hate God t-shirt. That was just like a haunted house looking thing on the cover. Cause I, I like this having, I hate God much. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Who, who amongst us? Because you hated God before and you hate God even more now. So yeah. So, okay. I was just wondering when I was, when I was reading through and I was like, now that he's a deep pop baddie, is he regretting letting all these fucking morbid angel grails go for free just to his bro who came over for some quinoa? [24:11] I think it was pizza. I kept my, I kept him wearing an angel shirt. Do you think you, do you think, and this is not a shock because we're all the same age, but do you think you were one of the oldest sellers on Depop? Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yes. Because I, Depop has heat, but every time I think about it, I just can't do it. Like I can't get on there because it feels too Gen Zed. Well, that is, I enjoyed doing it because it was like, I kind of could, you know, I was just like, [24:36] It was a very, hey, fellow's kids kind of thing for me to try to get in there. I would love for you to snap somebody lowballs you on the Morbid Angel and you get into, you're like, oh, really, bitch? You know what just happened to me? And then you really get into the 15-year-old. I'm still like, yeah, but I still have that attitude sometimes. Like somebody tried to like, you know, I had a T-shirt I was trying to, you know, I was telling somebody was like, [24:57] squabbling over like $2. And I was just like, no. I was like, I'm not taking this. It's ridiculous. I'd rather give you like $20 off of something that is, you know...

[25:06] $40 and then give you $3 off of something that is $15. I'm just like... Well, you're going to come in, you're going to teach these Gen Z pieces of shit how to negotiate like a human being, like a real adult. Yeah, you send a nice message. Somebody says, thank you so much, and I'm happy to give you your discount. I'll give you your tax off. You know what I'm feeling? That's right. I'm feeling generous today. I'll give the dog. Yeah. I just had a great experience on eBay where I found a shirt that I'd never seen before for Whiskeytown, my favorite band, who no one's allowed to like anymore. [25:36] Why is that, Chris? We can get into it later, but it's no Red House Painters. But the guy, it was the only thing he had for sale on eBay, but he knew it was worth... [25:49] He knew it was worth money. What'd you pay? No low balls. I know what I got. It was a Whiskeytown Strangers Almanac shirt, and it's just got this MS paint graphic of a cracked Les Paul. It's hideous. It's amazing. But the guy had it listed for $350, and I was like, you know what you have. I can't give you $350. I had him with the $225. He took it. Oh, wow. Why is Whiskeytown merch so expensive? Because they're one of America's greatest bands that has been forgotten. And, well, I just think anything, like anything. [26:19] guys like like me in america who have driven the market up okay yeah there's 10 there's 10 guys who have jobs and and a fucking paypal account and they're like i love because also the merch is historic like all that i mean that's the thing about metal stuff i just find it ugly like i hate the way it looks it's not what i like so it's tough for me whereas this stuff is really ugly in a way that's just sort of a forgotten era when graphic design required like scissors and tape yeah no i know what you mean because a lot of metal shirts it's either kind of like

[26:49] stuff like aliens and entrail eating. Some of it looks really tough and badass, but it's like [26:58] you know, Jesus is a cunt, Nazi stuff. Like it's like, like the stuff that truly looks badass, you can't wear it and you shouldn't want to wear it because there's usually some, some real bad stuff behind it. [27:10] That's often the case. Yeah. [27:13] Yes. So you got the Whiskey Town shirt, though, for $2.25? One of several. Yeah. Well, I found the best one I've ever seen, I sent to my guy who does Disorder Vintage because it wasn't my size, and he bought it immediately. So I liked it. When I find something that I can't wear and I know somebody, I'll send it to them. And if they're a freak, they'll buy it, is usually. I feel like that's sort of what I'm trying. That's giving back to my community. Community. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. [27:40] I was able to skim through the book. I got the PDF a couple days ago, so I didn't sit down and read the whole thing. But I feel like the whole read is a massive gratitude exercise, learning about your childhood and what happened to you later on in life. And for our listeners out there who are feeling down about themselves or the insides of their body, it was a great massive gratitude exercise, and it was probably very hard for you to write. [28:07] Kudos and thank you. Thanks, Jason. I appreciate that. Yeah, had you come to terms with the stuff that happened to you as a kid when you started getting into this, or did it bring that back up again? So, you know, when I was a kid, basically, like...

[28:20] I was a pretty sick kid like I had. [28:22] I mean, it's not unusual. I had my colon cut out. I had like a clossing bag for a little while. I was in a lot of pain. No, big bro. That is weird. That's not normal. It was weird. I had ewe infection. Yeah, tonsils out, please. It wasn't great. It was not a great experience to have when you're kind of like in middle school. [28:44] But that's also where so many people get interested in underground culture and into music because something kind of adverse happens to them. [28:52] you know, that it took for me. You know, it's not that... [28:56] It's no longer sort of like a defining, the defining part of my life, but it is, I think, in order for you to understand who I am to figure out who I, you know, kind of became afterwards when my son died, it was important to kind of talk about that. [29:13] elements no it's i i i mean i had no everybody i knew that got into aggressive music it was they were an upper middle class white guy or their like parents were divorced like no actual anguish like this is actually oh well you know what i mean this is like real shit that's like could really take a bad toll on someone if they don't figure it out and deal with it pretty soon early i think because kids are so fucking mean and and having your colon having a colostomy bag when you're 14

[29:43] think kids would be nice about it, but I'm guessing they weren't. Well, you know, it was the 90s, so everybody wore huge pants, so it wasn't that hard to hide, which was cool. Damn. There is an upside. There is an upside. There was an upside. It was not an issue. I was like, okay, Earth Crisis told me it's okay to look like this, so I'm gonna do it. I'm serious. You know? You mean like Earth Crisis literally told you it's all good? No, I mean, I looked at Carl's pants, and I said I can wear that, too. And I'm pretty short, so like, you know, I didn't like wearing... [30:12] like, [30:13] the biggest fans, but they did fit [30:15] That was only for three months, so that was cool. No, but I think it also meant that at that point... [30:23] I was sort of familiar with different elements of pain and kind of making your way through it. I don't think that, [30:29] the experience of grief is the crushing pain of that. It's much... [30:34] much worse than anything that happened to me as a kid but i also think that like it's like i had a tool book you know it was like okay you're gonna be different than everybody like what do you [30:42] where do you start um i don't think i was an expert by any means and like you know kind of look to a lot of different people and a lot of different books and art and therapists to try to help me you know [30:54] literally kind of survive but it was not the sort of first time i'd gone like oh things are gonna be different for me like what do i what do i do yeah it it prepares you in some ways and obviously could never prepare you in others yeah sure i might have to get my cola removed to understand rollin's band so i think that changed you i think that did i think that i think that did a lot to understand or to appreciate to appreciate yeah you were um you were you were

[31:24] younger to find some solace or whatever. And I was thinking back, you know, when I was, you know, a teen doing the same thing. And I wanted to ask, like, what do you, like, obviously, maybe things are a lot more inclusive nowadays with people with disabilities or, you know, malformities or whatever in the scene, everything is much more inclusive. Do you think it's a little too inclusive [31:54] and maybe that hardened you up a little bit. [31:58] I don't know that that's something I completely... I mean, do you mean literally in the pit? [32:04] I guess maybe if you're a disabled person back in the day, do you want to feel a little danger so you feel like you're in with everyone else? Do you want to not be treated like a special person so much where you feel excluded? I'm at the Geese show and I want a little rough. A little bit of danger? [32:28] you go to a hardcore show or a punk show to feel a part of it's it's one unit all flowing together and and now it's like right we have to protect and they're like i don't want protection i just want to be like everyone else for for this next hour you know right i mean i can't speak as a disabled person but i understand the idea that like if the idea of going and joining and being a part of an underground universe is so that you kind of are all with people who are maybe out somewhere outside of the mainstream it's like finding kind of a collective of all people who

[32:58] elsewhere. So I can, in that sense, I can see what you are saying. Yeah. Yeah. I saw this. There was a lot of news this weekend because hell fest happened. I'm sure you remember that. Of course. In Jersey, they brought it back and there's a guy, I guess there's a guy who apparently, you know, [33:14] uh called the cops because someone moshed too hard on oh wow okay crowd killing i think is the term they're using oh yeah i've been hearing about this about crowd killing i can't say i've experienced this you've experienced the cop wrote a ticket being like like kind of making fun of the guy for calling the cops like in the in the notes of the ticket and i was like damn that's really funny that you call a cop and then the cop kind of makes fun of you is a real full circle moment [33:44] yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly crowd killing we got people debating if you're allowed to take photos at a or you know at a hardcore show whether or not you're allowed to beat up the guy who's wearing a banana suit in the in the mosh pit at the beat down hardcore show there's there's a lot of this floating around of the old hardcore guys [34:05] And the new hardcore thems. I never thought about any of that stuff. I just was super excited to go to the show that was happening at a skate park. And that was kind of it. Same. I definitely went into a pit when I was scared. And then it didn't matter. I was so excited to be a part of literally anything that was... [34:25] you know, from an underground, underground world, I didn't,

[34:29] I was not thinking about anything other than just like he or just like [34:32] just like my brain was, I was just so, so stoked. You know, it was like, I was seeing convert, you know, I remember I was looking at photos, you know, I have to like seeing converge in high school and like, [34:43] What is his name? Jacob Bannon, right? Yeah. You know, Bannon, I remember he's wearing a Godflesh t-shirt, which is how I learned about Godflesh. And I remember he had somehow run into the crowd. And I want to say he hit his head on somebody's video camera and he's bleeding. [34:56] And I remember I was at the University of Hartford watching this and I was just like, [35:00] jaw dropped like watching this dude just like you know him running around and he's just you know at that point this was you know this was probably like year 2000 so he's pretty young at that point too and just completely fearless and just bleeding everywhere like wearing a god's flesh t-shirt i'm just like he went head first into that video camera because he wanted the blood that's yeah i mean that's very you know that's a very kind of eagy way of doing it that's that's very possible it's rollins-esque as well [35:27] Sorry for interrupting. Oh, no, it's fine. Rollins was definitely hurting himself with no question. Rollins with a whole other universe. What do you think about, as a esteemed music journalist, been doing this for a long time, what do you think of all of this indie rock, best song, American, you know what I mean? All this stuff going on. Have you been following this? No. Best song? You haven't seen this? It's like this whole thing about... No, tell me. Best indie songs, I think, is what we're doing. And now people are [35:57] indie. You know what I mean? They're like, oh, I don't know if that actually counts or if this counts or if that counts. It's a conversation I will

[36:03] I don't think I want to have. Oh, my God. Because it just shows everyone's age and where their lines are and shit. And people's lists are just all over the place because it's so insane. You can't really do that. So somebody's top 10 American indie rock songs, and they'll say the Strokes last night. And somebody's like, the Strokes aren't fucking indie because their dad was a- That's not indie. But it's a fun thing to debate. [36:33] other people we know but the strokes aren't indie oh god yeah so like that's like you can spiritually tell if a band is indie or not you know what i mean no they're not indie yeah like as soon as you said that i was like they're not in the end then i'm like oh this is what i don't want to be like don't want to do but i i think that i think that the confusion lies in the fact that they birthed so many imitators that were indie that i think a lot of people can't you know what i mean they can't separate those two things with the strokes particularly i would i would guess that's part of the problem is there a consensus pick that has gone down like i'm trying [37:03] what I think people's [37:05] in best indie song of all time american indie song of all time where people sing like my girls or something i mean look i've seen a lot of built to spill you know what i mean i don't want to get i don't want to get political here silver sun pickups they're up in there you already know what i'm saying brother but that's what i mean it's such a it's such a wide it's it's impossible is it a silver jew is it a pavement is it a dino junior does it right it's a pavement right i think silver jews i think that does encapsulate something deeply american in a way that other

[37:35] I don't know if that is necessarily a factor that would mean something to everyone. I feel right. There are people who are younger than silver Jews that are probably arguing about this. Yeah. Yeah. The age, the age gate on Twitter, unfortunately, is not there. For listeners at home, silver Jews is a ban, just to be clear. It's got to be. Yes. [37:50] It's got to be Cold Sounds by Pavement? Is that like... I think that's... You tell me. You tell me, buddy. I say Ariel Pink, whatever he makes is all good. Oh my god. It is up there. It is up there. Pavement is mentioned several times, of course. It's got to... Yeah, it's got to be. I went to... Yeah. I went to one of the Pavement reunion shows, paid my... [38:10] triple digits for the ticket and you know at the time of my life as a 43 year old i did too i did too and i was disappointed it looked like it was a fucking meetup of guys that work at breweries but you know i don't know what i don't know what i expected i don't yeah every time i go to a show though i'm like damn this is the audience of the music that i also like and it disappoints me and i don't know what that says about me or about the audience when um you you mentioned that you learned about god flesh from jacob from converge wearing a t-shirt when you saw him play yes and i didn't [38:40] to the music of Henry Rollins from the soundtrack to The Crow. Did you guys have that same experience? Do you remember that movie, The Crow? I remember the movie. I remember the soundtrack. But I was wondering, you know... [38:52] It's probably the least valid underground punk way to discover Black Flag and the Rollins band. It's normally like some kid is wearing a t-shirt with the bars on it and you look it up or you see an album somewhere. Is the fact that you discovered Henry Rollins through the Crow soundtrack something you're proud of or embarrassed about? I mean, neither. It's just facts. It's true. It happens. Well, you should be embarrassed. Okay. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[39:22] realize what I was actually discovering was suicide because they were covering Ghost Rider by suicide, but I had no idea that was covered. I always, for some reason, the cover of that, or the, you know, whatever, the artwork for that movie always seems so silly to me that I was like, this is ridiculous. Like, this looks like a parody. What is silly about it? It's a crow, and the movie's called The Crow. No, I thought it had the actor on the front. I thought there was [39:52] I thought it was like kind of walking out of the darkness. You might be thinking the crow too. That's the crow. Oh, no, you're right. Yeah. That's what I remember. There were some different artworks to it. I apologize. This is Jason Lee, you know, who got, who was shot and killed accidentally in the making of that film, which is, you know, I think it ended, gave it an air of heaviness. I think when I was growing up, [40:13] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to us by our friends at Dart Collective. I think we can all agree that wedding music is typically quite lame, cheesy, and it doesn't represent the bride and groom's personal music taste. Luckily, Dart works with actual musicians and artists, many of whom have their own productive careers or tour in bands you've heard of, everyone from Leon Bridges to Taylor Swift. Dart DJs use vinyl and are cool in a way that your peers would be, [40:43] They even have an in-house stylist to make sure all personnel look perfect on the day. Dart travels all over the world for events from Morocco to Italy, Greece, and the Maldives. Dart has done huge celebrity events and also intimate ones. Yeah, Chris, I am personally friends with Michael from Dart and I have worked with them for years. I think the last time I did a big one, we did the Sweet Green.

[41:09] wedding. They set up a beautiful booth for the ceremony, just some cocktail music, some vinyl, some cool vibes. And then they set up a whole big tent with a crazy bumping sound system for me to play in later. These guys are great. A lot of people always ask me like, hey, do cool wedding DJs exist? Do cool event people exist? The cool part about Dart is they'll work with people like me to come and DJ your party, as well as provide all the gear and all the consulting and all that [41:39] who to hire for your event dart collective is the one dart just like throwing a dart dash collective.com and uh ask for mike his email address is michael at dart dash collective.com tell them we sent you uh so if you have an event coming up this summer dart collective is where you [42:03] you [42:04] But I guess, yeah, I mean, it's so fascinating to me, I guess, just because obviously the subject matter is quite heavy. You know, you find a way to, you know, weave it. And it's obviously very palatable. But I just don't, I guess, because there's a part where you say that you're talking to your friend whose mom died. And he's like straight up like, honestly, bro, I don't think about that much. Because it's been so long or whatever. Oh, yeah. [42:34] saying that but like obviously he was you know saying it to you for a reason i believe it to be true but i guess it's just like revisiting i don't know like the the how do you go from like sitting in in like your own shit all day to then being like all right babe what are we having for dinner like was it hard to sort of get in and out of it or do you found a way to compartmentalize well look i mean i wrote zines when i was growing up i've always written about

[43:00] what was going on with me and often in the context of music, but it's been the way in which I kind of neutralized whatever was happening. So I would go to this writing center every day. [43:12] the Center for Fiction, and I would sit there, and then I would, you know, have lunch with a friend, and then... [43:18] I would go back and write some more, and that was it. And for most of this, I also had [43:21] My daughter was, you know, we have a daughter now, and she was... [43:26] less than a year old so i would go home and you know we do child care i would say i was pretty much [43:31] toast at the end of the day after working on this. But it also helped kind of take what had happened and turned it into something new. [43:39] else. And that was kind of the point. I don't think I realized how just super... [43:46] angry I was. And this was a place that kind of helped [43:50] process it. So it was sort of like getting it out. Could you direct that anger somewhere or was it sort of like... [43:57] just angry like at the world at god let's say quote unquote yeah like i mean right like i was mad at cannibal corpse i was mad at the surgeons who worked on him like i was mad at friends who didn't text me enough or in the right way you know i was mad at anyone and anything but i didn't really realize that like and so i would write these things down where i was like this this jerk didn't do this thing he didn't text me in this way and i'm mad about this you know i didn't put

[44:27] to chill. That was an exorcism, not a chapter. Yeah, that's really well put. That's exactly kind of what that was like. So [44:35] in a sense, kind of being able to give space to think about it every day [44:40] I think it was tiring, but it was better than kind of squeezing it in kind of after I'd done, you know... [44:45] done my job, done childcare for a kid, like I figured it out, you know? So the book actually kind of like being able to focus on it allowed me to have the [44:54] actually kind of keep going as opposed to being like, the only time I'm going to talk about it is only when I go to therapy for one week. A week just wasn't going to work. My whole life was this. And this was kind of a safe and healthy way for it to take over. I know that you used music to sort of come back out of your cage. And I wanted to know how or why [45:24] Okay, so my son... [45:27] So this whole life happened during the pandemic. And so we spent a lot of time at home. And that was the time that levitating was kind of popping off. I remember because you did how long gone? Like the first year? Your episode like 40 or 50? Oh, yeah. Very early on. Like, oh, gee. Yeah, no, at that point. That was 2020. 2020, yeah, that's right. Yeah, levitating was like the... [45:49] He loved that song, you know? So we played that song. We had a sort of... [45:53] a sort of ceremony and [45:55] we had a rabbi who was often

[46:00] There's a ritual that you will do that grieving people will do at the end of the ceremony. They'll leave the house and kind of walk around the block to kind of show that they have been... [46:11] renewed, I guess. And they said, you know, before you guys leave the house, usually we'll play music. [46:17] Maybe music that the deceased... [46:20] really loved. And we thought about what he liked, and we were like, honestly, we just were at home listening to the levitating all the time. [46:26] And so after this kind of, you know, after we talked, I mean, it was nice. People laughed. They were like, that's kind of funny. You guys are putting on levitating, like at, you know, essentially like a funeral service, but it was actually really moving because it was like, it was true. You know, we didn't kind of pretend that, oh, he liked, you know, this kind of, we didn't put something somber on. It was just like... [46:44] Look, this is the kind of thing that, I mean, I love that song. It's a great song. It's a really beautiful love song. But it was also a song that could translate to a less than two year old. So it was, it was, that was a nice moment actually in our lives where it was like, [46:58] It just felt tangible and real. It felt like unpretentious and just honest. Were you able to play the version without DaBaby on it? I think, I'm trying to remember if he had been canceled. [47:11] He was removed from the remix after it was released. No, I know. Matt's ahead. He's got the flak file with DaBabyverse on it somewhere. I know he's got that in the tank. I'm pretty sure we played the no DaBaby version. That would change the mood. [47:28] Levitating changes. The baby verse comes on. That really changed. Not even a baby wants to listen to the baby. No, that was true. I will say if anyone is friendly with Dua Lipa,

[47:37] you know please send her this book i know she's such a reader um so i desperately would love for her to check it out i know she met her husband after reading they were both reading trust come on read with me i'm a guy like that you believe that story about them being on the same chapter i'm not buying it but you don't think so that just seems i mean either just seems a little too good too far-fetched i mean look i think reading the same book yes i think that's yes [48:07] jealous when she read that little factoid about her meet cute. She was like, if my man could read, we could have done this. [48:15] This is bullshit. We're going to make this happen. I mean, Dua Lipa is a big reader. This is not out of the question that you could hit the book club. Oh my God. Dream of dreams. I don't have a personal connection to her just quite yet. I have a few other ones. Thank God. Because you know, Jason likes her music as well. State of California is not too into my whole thing right now. You'll see Jason in the background of Paparazzi [48:37] Sometimes he just happens to be at the hotel. He just happens to be in Italy. I'm just around meetings. I'm not a Vakanza. You mentioned rapper Blade as well. Blade, yeah. Nice pronunciation there. Grazie. Of course, the AI chatbot calls it Bladey, but I would never do that. But the song, the line from the Blade song that you were repeating, it's from a song I hadn't heard, but the line... [49:03] where he says, I put a window on the wall. I put a window on a wall. It has that like...

[49:08] that idiot savant quality that blade has in his lyricism. That's so crazy. That's unbelievably good. It's unbelievably good. It's the greatest lyric of all time. I put a window in a wall. Yeah. Like if MJ Lenderman had it, that was MJ should cover that song. People are going to be crying in the crowd. Sounds great. I'm here for it. Like, [49:27] I remember listening to that song and it was just like... [49:32] there was a wall, but then you could see through. It was the greatest thing at that moment. I listened to that song a hundred times in a row. I put a window in a wall. And then I was like, wait, isn't that how windows... But so many of us don't realize that we can put a window on the wall. You just say, that's a wall. Damn, that sucks. And then somebody comes into your life and they're like, what if we cut a hole and put a window in there? It'll take three days. Incredible. $1,800. And you're like, fuck me. I can see. [49:56] I think, you know, look, like, when you're experiencing something... [50:00] like this amount of heavy grief. Like you just live in a different universe. Like you're just not, my feet were not, [50:05] touching the same ground. I was just... I was... Levitating? Bucked up. I was very... You know, I was not a good... [50:11] I mean, look, this happened four and a half years ago. Like, it's not even that long ago. Like, I'm, you know, I can, I've retained an ability now to, like, kind of go about my life, but, like, I'm not the same. But when you are, when it's so fresh, like, you're just... [50:27] fucked. I think your desire for things to make sense is so strong that when you do something like put on a Blade song and you're hearing this like Swedish 27 year old be like I put a window in a wall. I mean, it's like it's just like Alan Watts like himself is like whispering the secrets of the universe to me. And that is what it felt like. I was like, I put a window in a wall. That's what I need to do. I need to put a window in the wall and then everything will work, you know, like and it really felt that way.

[50:56] So it was this kind of strange... [50:58] bizarre [50:59] way of connecting with art where everything just felt so powerful and i'd always had that experience i want to you know you guys have been talking about wrongs it was like this guy he meant everything to me you know [51:10] And so anything that may have meant a little bit to me and maybe had a psychedelic tinge, like I just dove into it so much harder. It just felt like it just, it just hit. [51:20] You know, and I think it's nice. Some of that I have retained, you know, the power of some of that music. I don't think that Blade is like a, an Oracle necessarily. I now think he's kind of just like, you know, [51:33] a guy that makes one of us but i still listen to that and i'm like this guy knows something you know it's the feeling is still there like the vapor has not kind of washed away how would you say this guy knows something that's all i can say i don't know i don't know what i don't know what it is but he knows something he knows something he's he reminds me of theo vaughn where it's a bunch of bullshit a bunch of bullshit and then he just says something where you're like [51:58] Nobody else in the world would say something like that. I think, yeah, I think it's a great comparison. Hell yeah. I don't know if you, are you guys Bill Callahan fans? Smog fans? I dabble in smog, but I'm not like a head the way some people are. I am a head. I spent a lot of time listening to music after Renzo died. [52:17] And when they asked me to figure out, like, did I want to read the audiobook, I was like, there's just... [52:25] 0% chance that's gonna happen. But I was like, who was gonna do this? But I was like, I wrote about Bill Callahan in the book and listening to his music. And so I asked Bill, I emailed him and I asked him if he would do it. And he said, sure. So he actually read the audio book. Oh, that's awesome. Which was cool. But I did get to have a great brief chat with him about Blade, which was just...

[52:47] One of the better things in my life, I feel like. What was his awareness level on Blade? Well, I mean, it was really just like, I was like, oh, wait, do you know the pronunciation is not Blade-y? With the double E's. And he's like, oh, no. I know about that. That's an important thing to call out. I love the idea of having to have a call with 60-year-old Bill Callahan about how to pronounce Blade-y. He's like, of course, you fucking idiot. It's Blade. Yes. What do you mean? That's basically what he said. And I was like, this is great. [53:17] Kids already emailed me last week how to pronounce it. Okay, I think I'm good, Matt. Because that's kind of the opposite of the story about trying to interview Henry Rollins and him just being like, nah, I'm good. No. [53:31] Yeah, I mean, he was very, you know, he was, I understood, you know, he was gracious and I appreciated that. You know what, Matt? I don't understand. I fuck that. If you, if you, Matt, honestly, we don't know each other that well. If you told me that story and ask me anything, I'm doing it. Anything. If you say, hey, Chris, you've done something I really like. I need you to come over and wash my feet. I'd be like, all right, what time, bro? Like, I'm there. I think, you know, what happened was... [53:59] So in the way that I had, like, kind of lost my mind, I was working at Vice, and I'm like, I know what's going to happen. I'm going to go interview Henry Rollins. So my son's middle name was Rollins. That's what we talked about. And as I had written about that back when we talked, you know, a couple years ago. Yeah, you talked about that on the podcast. So after I was like, Henry Rollins is just going to fix my whole life. Like, I really didn't.

[54:17] That is really what I thought. Rollins explains it all. I was like, literally, I'm going to go to California, Henry Rollins is going to drive me around, and he's going to tell me how to live, and then I'll be healed. This is the logic that [54:29] I had, and it just didn't [54:31] At first, he kind of quibbled. He was like, I'm not going to do a story for Vice. I don't like Vice. Vice is a bad property. The perfect excuse, by the way. What a cop-out. Airtight. Which was fine. I will say, they're all... [54:42] Do either of you guys remember Code 13 was like a crust band? Yes, unfortunately. Code 13 was sick. It was Felix Havoc's band, but... [54:51] Before Renzo died, I did try to interview him. [54:54] Felix tried to he became a big hiker and I was trying to interview him about the connection between cross punk and hiking and he was like I do like the idea of doing this I will not do it for vice so it was the second time I've got he's like let me wrap this up for you chief we both sleep on the floor and it's not a problem that's kind of it beyond beyond the the being in and around dirt there's not a whole I mean I like I mean I like that I think I like the crusty side of hiking I think you guys should get Felix on here and talk to him find out the answer but [55:24] They're from Minneapolis. Were they at St. Paul? Minneapolis, yeah. [55:28] That's good crust country over there. Good crust stock over there. I think he's still doing Havoc Records. I mean, amazing. I liked Code 13. I thought they were good. But anyway, like Rollins, he didn't want to... He was just like... I think it was too... [55:42] He's a public figure. It's a lot to be roped into somebody else's story like that. You know, like, hi, my son died. He was named after you. You do not know me. Can you help me, you know, survive? Also, I'm going to write about it. I mean, I get that also from the fact that I'm sure he's heard stories like this before. Right. Like, you know, he's a weird guy. He's inspired a lot of weird people. Put it in the pile with the rest of them. And also, he's like, oh, this is going to turn into a book tour. I am terrified of him.

[56:12] I'm sure. Hating this book, to be honest. I hope it connects with them. I hope he sees it or I hope he doesn't [56:19] Where is he? What does he do now? Like, where is he? He lives in LA. He has a radio show. He seems to just collect rare seven inches and then play them on the radio every week. He buys a lot of records. What station is this on? Is this on like Indie103.com? I think it's KCRW, maybe? KCRW. I think he changed. I don't know if he changed. He was also doing an NTS show recently, but I don't know if that's replaced KCRW or not. And then he puts books out. You know, he writes about music. [56:45] a lot. He still has 213.61. I don't want to be a pocket checker, but do we think Rollins is low-key rich? He's got to have done well. He also had those moments like he was in Heat, he was in Johnny Mnemonic. Yeah, he was in a string of movies. And I also think he was doing Rollins Band [57:02] you know, in the nineties when, you know, they were the liar CD single or whatever. I'm sure he did. He was making music when, you know, when they were playing. Yeah. Well, Palooza, they were playing these shows that probably sold. Well, he's opening for a helmet. [57:18] in Transylvania taking home a tidy penny he's keeping most of the money from the band he never had a drug problem he never was like a gambler how many times has he been how many times has been divorced though none I don't think he's ever been married virgin ass wow wow I mean I see where your where your logic is because I feel like you know playing fucking minute men singles on KCRW is not necessarily paying the mortgage you know what I mean no no

[57:45] No, guys like that, I always find it's either they're unbelievably good with money and they live an amazing life or they're like low key kind of broke because they just sort of made the wrong decisions over and over. I think he, you know, I think he, you know, he quit making music around the year 2000. And I think he was like. [58:05] this is not good for me. I don't like this. And I feel like it was interesting. He was like, he talked about doing a Rollins kind of reunion. Cause I think he thought, [58:14] It would help out some of the members of the band. And then he was like, I can't be this person. And I'm impressed that he's never... [58:22] really i saw a video of him like singing like i forget what song with cydney lopper at some point for a benefit but he has not come back i'm sure that he's had offers from all kinds of people to do reunion shows yeah and he you know he's stayed pretty true to what i am surprised when that new turnstile tour came out and had a different opening band every night i thought maybe a rollins would sneak in there i mean he still does a spoken word to us like you can see him [58:52] What do you think about... Difference of opinion. What do you think about Black Flag, you know, whatever form they're in now, playing reunion shows and touring and things like that? I watched some of the videos. And this is, you know, Black Flag, so it's just Greg Ginn and a lot of kind of Gen... Like, I think, 4, Gen... It's kids. It's... The one thing about it is that it's... [59:14] bad. And I think that is unfortunate. It just seems so weird. I feel like anyone who's a real...

[59:21] Black flag fan. I don't care if the 18-year-old bass player is wearing a dead milkman shirt. It's still just like, what am I doing here? I'm watching a band that taught me how to live being played by kids that are younger than my children. What's weird on a pure... [59:40] you know if you leave some of the kind of cultural context on the you know put that aside for a minute it it doesn't it didn't have to just like be musically so sucky and i think it's almost easier because i would have more complicated feelings if it was actually like pretty sick um but it's just not even like oh this isn't good at all like why did he pick three people who aren't [1:00:04] Good. That's a great question. This is reminding me. There was a band in Atlanta called Quadliaccia that had a famous lyric. Oh, my God. I hate GBH, Black Flag, Weird Al, DRI. They're all profiteers in a scene that's DIY. And that's kind of what, that's kind of not to, you know, just to put it out there. I think it's important. I think it's important to remember that stuff. [1:00:28] Quadliaccia, that was like. Oh, are you familiar? That was like, were they like friends with like. Yeah, they were like. [1:00:34] snip that's true he knows figure yes yeah gavin distribution legendary atlanta record seller and label who's still around i saw him i saw him at a hardcore i went to see my friend ezra's band secrets play a hardcore show and he was there i couldn't believe it we didn't speak but i couldn't believe it i remember that scene like they were like in human in the same scene with like in humanity maybe wow i don't know maybe not okay um damn i i knew i was talking to i knew i was talking to the goat but yeah he said i'm not new to this i mean look dude there was not like i said

[1:01:04] doing nothing because I was like, I had surgery and I was reading every [1:01:09] issue of Heart Attack magazine, like front to back, you know? Heart Attack's a reoccurring character on how long gone, don't worry. Yeah, in the book, you mentioned sort of that period, quote-unquote, surviving purely on intellectual agility. Did I say that? Maybe the AI said that. Maybe. [1:01:26] But more so, like, your love of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles character, Krang, where it's just a brain in a jar, and you have no body to have to deal with. Yeah, that would be cool. [1:01:39] And I'm sure you're not the only person who sort of wishes that your brain, you know, was inside of a robot that was awesome and could kick ass and then you didn't have to worry about the body stuff. And I was wondering, is there a community of people with that same, you know, people who want to crank out? [1:01:55] There's gotta be. I mean, look. Crang it out! To the sound of the streets, prang it out? Prang it out! Down the street! Yeah, probably. You know, I mean, look, I do go on to, like, I still... r slash krangers? Well, I mean, I definitely am, like, on the, you know, lurking on the Reddit for, you know, for colitis people. Like, I'm sure they have the same feeling. Or I know they do. Colitis heads? Like, kaleidoscopes. [1:02:24] Yeah. [1:02:25] don't know i don't feel like that anymore necessarily but i think that feeling was very pure where you're like [1:02:30] I mean, because look, I was sitting in bed, I'm watching MTV news, learning about all this cool stuff, and I'm stuck. You're like, oh, your brain is listening to Sonic Youth and being completely expanded. And then you're just like, well, here you are. I hope you enjoy suburban Connecticut for the next 10 years. But I can't go skate the curb about this right now like everyone else. But I also am not coordinated and can't even skate. There was no chance I was skating any curbs.

[1:03:00] or not oh dude we're not gonna back a hundred percent like this is what you know i started taking drum lessons like somewhat recently whoa just to like your anger is a gift do something [1:03:11] And it's sort of a bummer how uncoordinated I am, you know, like I was like, [1:03:18] It's like... [1:03:19] Oh, limb independence is not coming easily. Limb independence split seven inch coming out soon. Yeah, that feels like a shirt you gave away. With Asuk. Yeah. Okay. I would buy that. Shifting gears, what's it like... [1:03:31] Dating an F1 chick. [1:03:33] Pun intended. Dating. Well, my wife, yeah, she's a huge Formula One fan. Sorry, being married to an F1 chick. Yeah, it's great. Like you mentioned sort of feeling the pleasure of maybe coming down to the living room. She's got the, you know, Monaco quarterfinals, you know, time trials. She's obsessed. Yeah. I mean, look, I think I love anyone who is obsessed with. [1:03:56] whatever they're into. It's cool to have somebody tell you about their passions. That's one of my favorite things to do. That's sort of why I kind of, [1:04:03] stuck around as an editor in spite the like um constant layoffs and uh you know for um future for media um but um yeah it's great i learned a ton about race cars which is not a thing i know anything about um my wife also does not know how to drive which is kind of funny that she's so into f1 that's really funny i like okay are you have you taken her to a [1:04:26] a race yet? No, and she's actually annoyed that she's not been able to go to one. And I think we should go. It's not for me, but I didn't care to begin with. It's a pretty fascinating group of people, I will say. What was it like?

[1:04:41] Tell me everything. Like Euro trash. I have to buy every piece of merch here and drink all day kind of vibe. It's people go to kind of party and hang out. I think that the, like you said, it's better to watch it on TV if you actually care about the race. I think if you go, it's more of a fun thing to do than it is an actual, you know, I'm going to be your walk in. Otherwise, even if you have good seats, you're basically just sitting on a corner and then every 45 seconds it goes, [1:05:11] and then you're like I think that was the person I liked but you don't have your stats up I think [1:05:18] It was funny. My wife is a tough lady. And I think when... Oh, God. What is that? The Red Bull guy who was such a goober. Well, they're all goobers. That's the trick. He was the one who was winning all the time. But now he's not winning anymore. And I feel stupid. I can't remember. Oh, Verstappen. Max? Verstappen. Max Verstappen. To see her just be like... [1:05:37] this fucking guy. You know, like the kind of vitriol she had. That's what was kind of exciting to me. That is funny. To be like, damn, at least this ain't directed at me for once. This rocks. [1:05:49] That's exactly right. And it's rocks. We all need to find a max in our life. Yeah, exactly. You need one. Okay, well, Schnipper, thank you for taking the time to chat with us. Rise Above is out July 21st. I think New York Times said it's going to be [1:06:05] a non-fiction must read for the summer is that true something like yeah i mean i'll take it for it that sounds right a baroque beach read but yeah i mean like chris said earlier you know the subject matter is obviously quite heavy and the type of thing where most people might not be in the mood to dive into it especially you know on the chaise lounge at il pelicano but you do pepper in a lot of great you know just kind of regular moments that we all go through every day and and

[1:06:35] really enjoyable experience. So well done. Thank you. I appreciate it. I tried to make it funny. You know, it's about getting through. It's like rise above, not sink below. But you don't want to make it too funny. Good work. No, honestly, it's kind of a crazy thing to do. You should be proud of yourself. It's nice to be able to talk to you guys. Like, you know, I spoke to you about, you know, my son a couple of years ago. It's nice to come back and talk a little bit about this, like after on the other side. For sure. For sure. For sure. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you, [1:07:05] Later. [1:07:35] I'm so sorry. [1:07:42] It's time for forever