America Gets Bounced, World Cup Picks, Knicks Fan Bliss, ‘Heat 2’ and ‘The Odyssey’ With Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Jason Concepcion

[00:00] For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [00:07] Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. [00:30] of Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. [01:01] . [01:06] This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. [01:10] You know a clutch move when you see one? A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal? Well, imagine if your wallet [01:16] could pull off moves like that. [01:18] That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now, you can find offers from hundreds of brands. [01:22] like Sony, Allbirds, and Viator. [01:25] Save offers before you check out. [01:27] earn unlimited rewards. Plus, you can add those rewards on top of credit card points,

[01:32] Now that. [01:33] is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. [01:36] Save those offers, start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers, [01:46] terms and conditions. [02:14] The Bill Simmons Podcast, we are live on Netflix right after. [02:18] Uh, [02:19] Team USA. [02:21] got knocked out. [02:22] of the World Cup [02:23] I have Anthony Dabundo and Chris Ryan here. I wanted to mention Ali, new rewatchables is now up. And Zach Lowe and I did a basketball podcast yesterday. If you missed it. [02:33] All right, guys. I don't know why, but I had hope. I was excited for this game. [02:39] I, especially when Balogun got thrown back in with the Seattle crowd, I watched the whole two hour pregame show. [02:46] Ironically, I also saw The Odyssey today. [02:49] A three-hour... [02:52] Just a grueling trying to get through it, watching our hero try to land the plane at the end and was hoping maybe there was some parallels. Just trying to land the plane, man. Was hoping there were some parallels for America today and see our...

[03:06] It was not. It was a terrible, terrible, terrible performance by us. Another pod, another colonoscopy here for us. [03:14] Yeah, that was a real talent disparity and maybe a little bit of a wake-up call. It's been an awesome tournament. [03:21] I think that the country has embraced the sport. It's been really, really like one of the greatest couple of sporting weeks of my life. [03:29] But that was Real Madrid's goalkeeper and Manchester City's winger came on in the 60th minute. And, you know, [03:36] Telemans just won the Europa League with Aston Villa. And I thought maybe that extra 15 to 20% of talent really kind of put us in our spot. What did you think? [03:47] What about you, Dubundo? [03:50] We wondered what would happen the first time this defense actually got tested because the three games that the starters played – [03:57] We're not against teams who are going to test them. And I couldn't have imagined they could have failed that test anymore. I mean, it was every single time. It was very simple. Belgium played a long ball. [04:08] They won the long ball. Our defense panicked. Dest panicked. Ream panicked. Richards panicked. Freeman panicked. [04:14] And they gave away the ball over and over again. And any team, I mean, Belgium were fine, but I thought they made it way too easy. It's ridiculous. [04:21] This was, it felt like karaoke of all the things you would be worried about in a bad America game. [04:27] Right. [04:28] We talked about this before the tournament. The guys I was the most worried about were Ream and Dest. [04:33] Dest was unplayable. I mean, that was like... [04:35] He was so bad that it takes about a halftime.

[04:39] Reem looked every bit 38 years old. [04:42] the keeper had one of the worst F-ups we've had in a long time in a World Cup game. And then the other piece was, hey, it would be nice to Pulsic just [04:50] was awesome and stayed healthy for an entire game. And he stunk in the first half and then got hurt in the second half. And Sierra is almost wondering... [05:00] Everybody talking about Balgan when he got the red card, he was out. And then the dialogue for three, four days was... [05:07] He's our best guy. We can't lose our best guy. And then he comes out. Our best guy is back. And, you know, it could have gone one of two ways for Pulisic where it's like, oh, he's going to show everybody who the actual best guy in this team is. [05:19] Or he was going to have the game he had today where he looked like he was a freshman in high school playing varsity. Yeah, I don't know whether or not Pulisic was still carrying that calf injury and whether that had anything to do with it. Obviously, he kind of kicked through a Belgian player on that foul and basically hurt himself. But you feel bad to see his tournament end that way. I still go back to what I just said originally. It was that even our best player would be... [05:46] kind of middle tier Belgian player. You know, like our best of our best would be... [05:51] maybe Belgian bench players. And I got to say, [05:55] One thing that kind of jumped out at me was more than even the Balogun red card being overturned. [06:00] was when they announced the starting lineup. And I know each one of these guys has different reasons to, [06:04] But when Belgium didn't start De Bruyne, Lukaku, or Doku, I was like, I think they're getting ready for Spain.

[06:12] I kind of wonder what, I mean, De Bruyne didn't come on [06:15] Lukaku comes on at the end, scores the final goal. Doku was basically toying with us. [06:21] And I think it could have been worse, honestly. I think we got lucky a little bit to get out of there without giving up six. Dubundo, can you explain wrestling the three guys and what would be the NBA equivalent of somebody doing that? How about Joe Maz? Never mind. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon. No, it's not. [06:51] Senegal they had no answers and they pulled off Doku and Debrana in the 65th 70th minute and it literally felt like Rudy was waving the white flag Rudy Garcia and you're like all right that's it I even tweeted like his final move as manager of Belgium is removing his two best players they didn't actually play better they just scored two goals I mean Senegal's goalie had a mishap they just started chipping balls up to Lukaku and then they survived so I guess they're [07:16] The plan was like, we're going to ride with the guys who brought us here. And it was Luca Bacchio. But they clearly made a change, too. They changed up their midfield completely and played more defensive midfielders. And the first 10 minutes of the match, I think Onana, the guy who ended up getting hurt, may have won every single ball in the middle of the park for about 10 straight minutes. And I'm just like, oh, boy, this is this is not going well. And then when he got hurt, they actually played better. That was their only good 15 minutes was right before halftime.

[07:45] And still just didn't matter. Was it his sub who scored the crazy freeze mistake? Yeah, Van Aken. And he started last match too. And he plays for Club Bruges. He's a fine player. But the tactics were just, they shredded our press. And that was the one thing. It's like, we can press them. We can press them. And they were like, no, you can't. We're kicking it over the press over and over and over again. And they had, I mean, just no answers. They lost every second ball. [08:13] Yeah, we lost all the 50-50 balls. The passes, it felt like we couldn't get three or four straight passes in a row. [08:20] everybody, the 1v1 stuff, I was thinking back to the Paraguay game, which feels like it was 100 years ago now. [08:27] And Pulisic just destroying their left side for a half hour straight. I don't, I don't know if anyone beat anybody one V one for an hour on our side. Nope. And the only guy who felt athletically, like he could be on the field with those guys was Balgan. And it felt like over and over again, they almost unlocked them or he would make this run, but then the pass was behind him or. [08:47] And then finally, what was that? 12 minutes left. He's ripping down the left side. It was interesting that he went toward the close post on that shot. [08:56] But he hit it about 700 miles an hour and it almost like it was so hard it almost went in. But it felt like if they had gotten that goal [09:03] then maybe the crowd gets into it. Who the hell knows? Anything's possible. They needed a little bit of something like what Mexico had last night. First of all, I feel like the crowd kind of got taken out of it a little bit. I mean, maybe a goal in eight minutes will do that. Maybe all crowds would sound like that compared to Azteca. I mean, as much as Belgium is better, they panicked. They gave a ball away. I mean, there's a ball that lands. Three U.S. defenders are standing in the penalty area.

[09:33] watch the ball bounce in their penalty area. That's like 101 soccer defending 101. Never let the ball bounce in your penalty area. And the one Belgian guy gets on it, Guy Raskin. I watch a lot of soccer. I had to Google him. He plays for Rangers in the SPL. Like he's not, you know, this is not like they ran into a world-class team here. Belgium was played off the park a week ago by Senegal. [09:55] Unbelievable. [09:56] So they have four goals in this game, Belgium-CR. The first one... [10:01] Screw up by three defenders. Just all the, I thought you, oh, you, and then they score second goal. [10:08] It's a 1v2. Guy beats both guys, goes to baseline, crosses it wide open. [10:15] gets it. [10:16] Third goal is in the running for worst goals this country's ever given up in a World Cup. I don't know what the top five is, but it has to be in the top three where you have just multiple things collapsing. [10:28] once. Then the fourth goal, which the game is over at that point, but that was [10:32] Also something that you would see in like, you know, a JV soccer game. Well, I will note that Belgium went for that fourth goal too. So we should not underestimate that the, maybe how much they hate this team or hate what happened over the last couple of days and how much that might've, I mean, it's the world cup. Those guys don't need extra motivation, but we may have. [10:54] The Balogun thing may have just created a certain sense of, these guys think that their president's going to fucking try and beat us. No way. That fourth goal, they didn't need that one. And I feel like that was pointed. You're saying that was the FU goal? Yes. Like Spygate 2007 pass? Middle finger to the crowd. Doku could have been out in the corner dribbling around in circles. And that wouldn't have...

[11:17] We wouldn't have been able to take it off of them. That felt like they were going for a fourth. [11:22] - Yeah, the one narrative I'm not gonna accept is like, oh, we would've won if Trump hadn't gotten Balogun back. We sucked. That had nothing to do with anything. The team was terrible. That was the worst we've played, [11:34] Not only was that the worst we played all tournament, [11:37] But I've watched a ton of soccer, as you guys have. That was the worst anyone's played for like about a week. [11:43] when we were talking about these final 32, final 16 games, [11:47] That first hour was about as bad as we've seen any, but like couldn't complete a pass, defensive screw ups. Nobody was dangerous. Our best guy was invisible. Des was so bad he had to come out. It was really rough. But I think Belgium, I like beer. [12:04] chocolate's been pretty good. Other than that, the waffles are solid. Other than that, I don't have a lot of tolerance for these Belgian CR. I think that's it. The movie in Bruges? That's a good one. Love that movie. What else? Is there anything else to like about Belgium CR? I can't say. I've never been. I think at this point in the World Cup, there's no friendly opposition. You're going to figure out a way to get mad at everybody. I thought one of the things that [12:34] Belgium kind of exposed for us is the lack of identity. I mean, it's sort of hard because you're here, you're watching all the stuff about the USMNT, and you're like, right, yeah, we believe in this, and this is incredible, and this is happening. But I don't really know if...

[12:48] I could tell you how the US wants to play [12:51] you know, and I thought Belgium kind of exposed that like, [12:55] Not that I would want to be Paraguay from the France match, but they obviously had an idea. They were going to like... [13:01] kick the hell out of France and try to like make it into a refereed match that might come down to pens we did not seem to have that game plan coming into this I'm sure poached you know had something in mind [13:14] But as soon as Tim Ream got kind of put on skates – [13:17] the plan seemed to go up in smoke. What did you think about the way that [13:22] Pochettina set us out. [13:24] Anthony. [13:25] You know, Ream getting dunked on really did feel like the turning point in a lot of ways because they had played so bad. The second goal. Yeah, 33 minutes in, Tillman hits the free kick. You know, you're like, we have our own Leo Messi now. Yeah, we're back. We got this. We're back. And it felt like they felt like they were back. [13:39] And then they like switched off again and they didn't stop the cross desk. [13:43] The first time he was asked to defend the entire tournament, [13:46] completely disaster. And that's why he's, you know, that's why they had to change the formation. So he didn't have to play right back. You go back four years ago, same exact thing. It was Dest getting picked on over and over again by the Dutch. And they beat us with very similar-esque goals. If you go look at those goals. So it feels like the same pattern. They're running into the same wall. But, you know, Pochettino did have this team playing so much better and more cohesively. I just think they got surprised. Rudy Garcia threw a change up and they got outclassed. [14:16] There's no way. [14:17] You can tell me that this was just Belgium. This was the U.S. giving them the game.

[14:21] I also wonder... [14:22] I thought I really like Berhalter. [14:25] And it felt like when he came in. Sebastian. Yeah. When he came in. [14:31] And then all of a sudden we had more speed on the outside and he's a little point guard-ish and, [14:36] All of a sudden, the corner kicks... He only had, I think, one or two. But the corner kicks, he's just the best guy in the team. He had the shot from distance and tried to cheat the crowd. I thought that was going in. Yeah, I just thought he... [14:47] And he's kind of gritty, which that was one of the things that you really noticed today was there was not a lot of... [14:53] nastiness like paraguay who was a disgrace on fourth of july like that was just an abomination of a soccer game yeah but if that was us we would have been like i was there 100 degree heat and it was just loving every second of it screaming yeah that entire goal was to 2004 pistons you know a [15:15] But for us, we had this great crowd. It was something I bet on England yesterday. And one of the reasons I did it was because of something CR said over the weekend. [15:24] about, or maybe it was when we did the Colin Asprey pod about, um, [15:28] These guys are in pressure stadiums all the time. Like it's not like, oh my God, the crowd psyched me out. [15:35] You know, all of these guys have played in the worst possible locations everywhere. England did a PR masterclass. As soon as their previous match had ended before Mexico, they were like, well, we're not going to have enough time to get used to the altitude. And we know it's going to be tough and we're going to be the underdogs in Azteca.

[15:53] And then after the match, Harry Kane was like, yeah, or Declan Rice was like, altitude wasn't that bad. Right. It was fine. Right. And I'm sure there's 10 stadiums that those guys are playing in all around. So same thing with Belgium. Like, oh, the crowd's going to be nuts in Seattle. But... [16:08] Guess when they're not nuts after you give up a goal in eight minutes and you can't complete a pass for 40 minutes. All right. So. [16:15] Big picture. [16:17] What do we build on from this, Dabundo? [16:20] Because it feels like we have two-thirds of a core of something really good. And built around Balgan, who I thought was just dangerous and awesome the whole tournament. And there's some speed now. There's some young legs. But it feels like a stopper. [16:35] Um, [16:36] Maybe they have to figure out once and for all is... [16:40] Sorry, guys, I have two Philly fans on here, but is Poole sick? [16:44] Indeed, [16:45] is just like he looks great in February when we're playing Charlotte or New Orleans, but when we actually need him in April, May, June, you can't count on him. What are the three things you're looking at that we'd have to build out from this? That does feel a little harsh on Pulisic. I mean, he's bad in this tournament, but he has carried the U.S. through some really dark times, really dark times in the last five to six to seven to eight years. So I think it's Baligan, Tillman, and Pulisic that come away from me as the core you can build around, but it starts at the back. [17:15] They have one good center back. [17:18] Maybe two with Freeman. [17:20] But goalkeeper's a problem. Who replaces Tim Ream?

[17:23] The backup defenders look pretty bad against Turkey. That's where it starts. It has to start there because they are not going to be able to defend good teams with the guys they're rolling out. [17:31] Tabundo, do you think McKenney and... [17:35] McKinney and Adams are the, like, are they unassailable as a central midfield partnership? Because I do think to your point about, like, we were unable to kind of, like, route away through Belgium at certain points. Like, you wonder whether or not, [17:50] Someone with a little bit more composure on the ball. Those guys give so much effort. They're all engine. But I don't know if there is a guy in the England, the America setup that could do that. That is a little bit more of a playmaker. But I think we were kind of crying out for something in the midfield there. [18:08] That's the number one issue with U.S. talent development right now. I mean, they just don't have that guy. There isn't a Kevin DeBrona. There isn't a... [18:16] Kiguri Tillman's even. There isn't a Leandro Trossard who's going to come in and playmake like that. McKinney did a pretty good job the first two games, but then today he was bad. And you do wonder, are McKinney and Tillman too similar now in what they do? And do you have a passer? Who is that person? [18:33] I don't know that that person exists. I don't think he does. At least I haven't seen him. People hoped he would. [18:38] It was going to be Gio Reyna. [18:39] And honestly, like, you know, Gio Reyna is a very polarizing figure. But when Reyna is the sub at half, you don't feel great about the second half because Reyna is a bigger name than he is a performer at this point in his career. And he had the great goal in the opener, but he gave them basically zero in the second half. Well, so what's the what are the goalie stopper on the horizon prospects? Do we have people that are like brewing?

[19:02] And there was a guy, Swanee, that people hyped up, but that hasn't really come to fruition yet. [19:07] It's probably not going to be Matt Fries long-term. He's already 27. [19:13] This is where it gets hard. I don't know. It's also about like, well, you know, I, [19:18] Hope and I guess assume Pochettino is going to stay on for at least – [19:24] half of a cycle, if not another full World Cup cycle. That might be a little bit much to ask because he's pretty young. And it's hard for me to imagine he's going to do... [19:32] what, five or six years then as the U.S. coach. And to be fair, by the time we get to 20... [19:40] 28, say, you could maybe go and try and get [19:44] If you put enough money in front of one of these guys, you could get somebody. You could get Mourinho. You could get [19:50] You could try and go for Pep or whoever. Like, you could go for somebody and try to bring in, like, one of the biggest managers in the world, which is what they just did. It's just, you know, he had a really nice run of games, and then the team kind of fell apart. And I don't know if he had, like, [20:08] He seemed a little surprised by how bad things were going and didn't really have a counter move yet. And that's what he really needs to develop. [20:17] I gotta say, I was really surprised. [20:20] I don't know why. I really thought they were going to play well today. I don't know if that meant they were going to win. [20:25] But I was surprised they stunk. [20:27] I got to say, I didn't see that one coming. I really thought like... [20:31] Especially getting Balgan back and Belgium had looked so bad in that Senegal game for two thirds of the game. And it was like, maybe we can catch these guys. I thought maybe it was going to be a little bit like the Canada-Morocco match where it was like, we play our asses off and really do well, but there's just like a class difference and they wind up turning it on at the right point in the match. I did not expect to get boat raced.

[20:54] All right, so let's go glass half full for a second. Sure. So they made the Sweet 16. The tournament, although we do this all the time with the World Cup where everybody decides this was this watershed tournament. [21:04] This has been going on since 1994 in this country, where every time either America makes a run or when we had it here, [21:11] Everyone's like, this is it. This is the moment for soccer. I feel like soccer's been happening for 20 plus years, and especially Premier League, La Liga. And once the HD on the TVs and once ESPN started showing it and all these other channels bought in, like soccer's here. Like people know who Holland is. It's not like he's like, oh, who's this guy? [21:30] Who's this guy in Norway who came out of nowhere? Like people fucking know who all these guys are. So soccer's here. We're one of the best 20 teams, which I think, considering we didn't make a World Cup recently, [21:42] That's... [21:43] That's a bonus. And then, I don't know, I do think, I think those three guys you mentioned earlier, Dabundo, like that's a good foundation. And now we just have to steal somebody else's money. [21:52] really good player and make them come here and live here in America. Michael, always say... Is it a rom-com? Is it a Netflix rom-com? We didn't know Messi plays in MLS. Can we acquire him by eminent domain and make him suit up? Wait. [22:07] This would be a really good Netflix rom-com where the person who runs the U.S. soccer team [22:13] They decide they're going to try, you know, those rom-coms where there's some sort of, there's a bet. [22:18] Or there's some sort of like there was a ploy, but then the person actually falls in love with who they're supposed to tempt. And then they find out 20 minutes left. Let's do that. Let's get one of those people. I'm ready for those. My wife would watch that movie. I don't know. Let's steal somebody though.

[22:32] There's nobody? We've already done that. We did that with the German. Did your dad ever serve in Germany? Please come play for us. Let's get more of them. Yes, Tillman, Balogin are all dual national guys that the U.S. convinced to play for us. I mean, that was one thing. Berhalter doesn't get a lot of credit for much these days, Greg Berhalter. But maybe one of the defining features of his coaching and his running of the program was getting more talent in the front door. [23:02] teens-ish team in the world. [23:05] How you get to that next step, [23:07] There's been a lot of teams that have tried for many decades, and it tends on to be the same eight teams almost every time. You said that before the tournament. [23:17] What's it? Eight teams ever that won the turn. Yeah, Uruguay is one of them. And now when you look at... [23:24] You look at the Fanduads now. Round of 16 was par. That's been par for this team forever. I think the frustrating thing is you get one on home soil, you get the best manager you've ever had, you get the most dominant group stage, and then you still look... I'd argue they looked worse in this match than they did against the Dutch four years ago. That match was more competitive than the final score leads on. This match was less competitive, maybe, than the final score leads on. Yeah, this felt like it could have been worse. Yeah, you look at the Fanduads right now. France favorite. [23:54] Minus 175. Spain plus 340. Argentina plus 450. And CR's England at 5-1. And then...

[24:02] Norway just like [24:05] 17 to 1. Come hither. Holland during the day in Miami. Yeah. Yeah. Just that's like you're really fun. Just I'm putting everybody on my back bet. We need to go sell some sunscreen in Miami this weekend. [24:19] That's a good business idea. So did this come down to that Senegal didn't hold on to that lead? Senegal didn't hold on to that lead to nothing? Because that's what we would have played, right? I felt like we matched up better with Senegal than we did with Belgium. And I know everybody wanted to call Belgium washed. And they kind of are. But it's still a big difference in passing quality from what Belgium can offer versus what the Senegalese did. [24:42] I would have preferred to have played Senegal. [24:44] What's your relationship with number 10 on Belgium, the left wing? [24:48] The little guy. Oh, Trossard? He plays for Arsenal. Just going nuts. Yeah, he just won the Premier League. [24:53] with and was very instrumental at the end for Arsenal. So... [24:58] I recognize him and acknowledge him, but I'm not an Arsenal fan, so it's a little bit tough. He really schooled us. He was awesome. He was getting doubled at times and just seemed to be able to get the ball where he wanted to go. [25:12] I hate Arsenal, but I actually like Trussard quite a bit. He's probably my favorite Arsenal player. I'm allowed to have one these days. You know those wings are scary when... [25:20] They're just completely still and the defense is paralyzed and they haven't even done anything like, oh, God, what's he going to do? Is he going to do something? What's happening? What do you think about the like the just in terms of your question about like, where do we go from here? I mean, it's interesting that the three host nations of the Cup went out in three successive days. Right. So Canada, then Mexico, then the US. I don't think it's going to diminish people's interest in the tournament just because there's still so many incredible players playing.

[25:50] that like [25:51] Jude Bellingham, Erling Haaland, Lionel Messi, Kylian Mbappe, Harry Kane are all dealing. This isn't like, oh yeah, I have to learn who this guy is. It's like, no, these are the best players in the world and they're playing like it. So I think that this will remain a really central sports story for another 10-12 days. [26:08] But it is disappointing that all of those host countries went out over the weekend and we're not going to get any of them in the semis. [26:15] Or the quarters, rather. [26:17] What was the highlight of the tournament for you, Dubundo? I know what it is for CR. [26:21] Oh, England 3, Mexico 2. It's one of the best games I've ever seen. Argentina 3, Cabo Verde 2. That was also one of the best games I've ever seen. And they all happened in the last week. I mean, it was unbelievable. But those two matches... [26:32] That's why we love the game. [26:35] Yeah, we go into the Azteca. Darren Fletcher. I want to give a shout to Darren Fletcher. He has called so many different sports now. He calls a lot of stuff in London. He's called baseball. But he has been so good these last two international tournaments. He did Euro 2024. He did. And now he's, you know, I think the number one guy. No disrespect to Strong and Stu, but like him and Hargraves are so fun. They make the game interesting. He's always working in these NFL or other sport references that kind of work, but don't really quite work. But you can see what he's trying to do. [27:05] And then, yeah, I mean, it was just the scenes. I mean, I was singing along to the anthems. [27:08] last night in my living room. It was so much fun. [27:11] CRG well up during Wonderwall after the game or no? No, I didn't. I think the bar that I was in was not quite an England bar, believe it or not. It barely got out of there alive? No, it was fine. Everybody was cool. But I think there were a couple of like silent fist bumps to myself.

[27:30] So walk us through the night last night for you. [27:35] You get a red card with 30 minutes left. This turns into pre-2004 Red Sox territory of like, oh, God, here we go. Here comes the fuck job. Well, and then Tuchel puts on all these center backs, not all these, but he puts on – like, he basically decides – [27:49] okay, this is what it's going to be. We're going to defend Fortress, and we're going to put Dan Byrne, who can just head away everything John Stone's out there. We're going to pull off Kane at a certain point. We're going to pull off Sokka. And it just was like, we're going to either live or die in the 90 minutes plus 11 minutes of stoppage time. And I thought that was brilliant and incredibly brave to do it that way, because if they had gone to extra time or to pens, [28:19] out there to get a goal or even to kick penalties. I mean, he's got center backs taking penalties. So I thought it was amazing that they were like, I don't think these guys can get it over our heads and we're going to prove it. [28:30] Who's the 6'7 guy you brought in? Dan Byrne. A lot of people made fun of him. A lot of people made fun of Tuchel for taking Dan Byrne. And it was like, this is why you bring him. For this one reason is you bring him in for this. It was amazing. It was like watching an NBA center just clearing out the paint [28:46] throwing it around. Um, [28:48] I thought that game was awesome. I really loved it. I think England's really good. I'm not just saying that because CR's here. [28:56] I don't see why they couldn't win at Sierra. It's a really weird setup right now. There's like some stardust around Messi.

[29:03] France definitely looks the most competent. I don't know what's going on with Spain. [29:08] Bye. [29:09] kind of seem to be playing with their food in a lot of these matches. [29:13] Um... [29:15] But I think... [29:17] I think right now, I think it's France's tournament to lose. It's so overwhelming how much talent they have. [29:24] What do you think, Domundo? [29:25] Well, it's very convenient you say that, CR, because I wrote a piece for the ringer today. Is this France's tournament to lose? And, you know, everybody has crowned France. France has not yet played a team that will challenge them in midfield, that will try to keep the ball, that will try to press them. And that's because most teams can't. Paraguay can't do that. Sweden certainly can't do that. Norway's backups can't do that. And so France looked very good. [29:49] and always does, against those kind of teams. But we have seen Spain... [29:53] in the past, the last couple of years, beat France by saying, we're going to keep the ball and your press isn't good enough to win it off of us. And that has worked for Spain. I think it could work for England. I think it could work for Argentina. I mean, people forget it's four years ago now, but Argentina was kicking France's ass for the first 70 minutes of that World Cup final. It wasn't until Mbappe's [30:13] sprinkled the pixie dust that that game turned around. Certainly, if you get into an end-to-end contest... [30:19] Nobody is beating France. But... [30:22] I think all three of the other favorites have a decent matchup to just say, hey, we're going to keep the ball and you're not going to be able to get it off of us. And good luck. Because Deschamps, they don't want to press. They don't like to press. Spain's defense has given up.

[30:35] What is it now? One and a half total expected goals in five games? It's ridiculous how good their press is. And so they get Belgium. Who does Morocco? Morocco, France. France. England, Norway. I would be shocked if it wasn't France and Spain. [30:48] Yeah. [30:50] I only saw the second half of the Spain today because I was at the Odyssey for three hours. [30:56] Um, [30:57] Classic Portugal, though. I wasn't surprised at all by their not scoring a goal at all. Not pulling Ronaldo off is an embarrassment. I mean, we talked about this in the pod we did before the tournament, that De Bundo was like, are they going to accept that this guy shouldn't be out there when it actually matters? Yeah. [31:17] All I know is I watched the second half and the little added time, all that. I never saw him come out. [31:23] They kept making subs and the broadcast dark kept saying, you know, they're the time that see all seven comes off. I mean, it's like he should have been Lukaku for them. [31:32] He should have been the closer. Or even if he's capable of that. I really don't know what he really is able to do. I mean, he... [31:40] Started patting himself on the back for scoring on Uzbekistan. And... Scored the penalty. And meanwhile, like his... Not necessarily his generational cohort, but the guys who he would consider... [31:52] you know, he's a part of that group. All those dudes have like seven goals, are leading their teams, and Ronaldo's divisive, and Ronaldo can't run anymore. [32:01] It was really funny. I mean, the stat that came out at the Croatia game, he had one touch.

[32:06] in the penalty area, and it was the penalty that was handed to him. And then his backup comes in, Gonzalo Ramos, who, again, four years ago, had the hat trick at the World Cup. [32:15] People seem to ignore that. And he scored on his first touch. [32:20] and the winning goal. [32:21] for Portugal. So we're like, oh, maybe Martinez will sub in and we'll go with Ramos. No. And there were opportunities today. If you wanted to be critical of Spain, there were chances like where a more functioning attack, it's not just Ronaldo. Liao was bad off the bench. Neto gave them nothing. Felix gave them nothing. All of their attackers were bad today. But [32:39] And Martinez is not a good manager. A competent team might have created some chances because their midfield hung in there. I mean, those two midfields went toe-to-toe today. It was a pretty even game. [32:47] And Norway, with their keeper and with Haaland, they have no chance to do a 2011 Mavs? [32:51] No, they certainly do. [32:53] I definitely think Norway has a shot. 17-1. I don't think Norway is very, very well organized, know exactly what they want to do. They have Odegaard. They have Haaland. They could do one there. They might be the best coach team in the tournament. [33:08] Their coach has done an incredible job of maximizing what they're good at and trying to hide as much as possible what they're bad at. It's like, we can't defend wide. So we're just going to like, [33:16] turtle up, and then the minute we win the ball, it's go, go, go. We're sending a bunch of numbers forward. Holland, Holland, Holland. Where's Holland? Oh, he scored. Oh, he scored again. It'll be interesting to see if Tuchel, when they get Norway on Saturday, whether Tuchel starts stones or [33:33] Even Dan Byrne to deal with Holland lurking back there because even Gabriel who plays for Arsenal for Brazil...

[33:41] like seemed small against him and they're going to need, they're going to need to muscle up with him. [33:48] So big picture, we're parachuting above this tournament. It feels like it's been an A or an A+. [33:53] All World Cups have black eyes and things where you're like, whoa, that happened. And certainly this one has. [34:00] But as a sporting event and as a piece of a spectacle, it's just been incredible. [34:05] The point you made earlier about all the best guys are playing their best. [34:11] is the number one thing you would want with any of these things. Like, I hope that's what happens in 2028 when they have the Olympics basketball, right? [34:19] You want all of these guys to also be at their best when they're going against each other, it feels like. [34:24] That's been happening. And then the Kate Faraday thing was incredible. Yeah. [34:27] And even America, just even getting to where they got to today was really fun. I just ordered a jersey. I can't wait to wear it. Cape Verde. [34:35] And the, uh, [34:36] And the fact that Messi can still do it at this level, but it feels like out of anybody in the tournament, even though all these guys are absolutely super famous. [34:44] It feels like Holland has won over the casual fans the most. [34:49] Because the people that aren't watching, you know, Sunday at six in the morning on Pacific time and just. [34:55] kind of parachuted in these cups. No, people are just like kind of dumbfounded by this guy. [34:59] He's probably the newest addition to the super galaxy of stars that we have. Him and Bellingham. If you watch England and you watch Real Madrid, Jude's not a new name or anything, but I think his performance in Mexico, that's the kind of thing they write songs about.

[35:19] And both guys embrace it. Like you said earlier, they play up to the stardom. Jude does the patented wide arms, and Holland has all of his celebrations. He's hilarious on social media. I saw his tweet got like 22 million views in the first two hours that it was posted. His selfie. I think it has 91 million now. Maybe it's 100 by this point. He's just hilarious. And he's so quintessentially Norwegian, right? It fits every stereotype that people think of when they think of the Vikings, [35:49] and everything. They've definitely probably been the fan base that has won over the most people too because of the iconic row. For sure. People on Broad Street in Philly rowing yesterday right after Norway won. I can't tell you guys, living in Philly, [36:02] where we've had Ecuadorians, we've had Brazilians, we've had the French, the Iraqis, we've had the Paraguayans, [36:08] just seeing the different communities, the Croatians were awesome. Seeing the different communities cycle in and out of the city for like the last two, three weeks. And then the 4th of July being Saturday with France game. And then downtown center city was just absolutely jumping all night Saturday into the, into the wee hours in the pouring rain. Like the city has never been more fun. Being a host city has been, has been a dream. And, uh, [36:29] I can't wait till we get to do it again in 12 years. [36:32] Yeah, the games are on the other side of town for LA, but it's been so cool to see like the Mexico fans showing out, especially in the east side of LA. And like, I was at the I watched the Ecuador game at a bar and it was just like, this is this is what it's all about. It's so fun. [36:48] Well, and the best thing for us here, it's not the case everywhere, but for here, the games are on at normal times that we can construct days around. And that's been, you know, something we lose when the thing is overseas. The games are on in the middle of the night and weird shit like that.

[37:03] Um, and, and I think that's going to happen with the Olympic basketball too, which will be a shorter version of this, but same thing with all the primetime games and all that stuff, everybody will be watching. [37:14] I think it's been an A+. I've loved it. I've loved the gambling. I love the irrational confidence I have now. I was like, there's no way Portugal beats Spain today. It's not happening. I don't see it. It's a dream World Cup. The sports books have gotten crushed. The back-to-back times where Mbappe, Kane, and Haaland both scored two goals. Mbappe, Messi, and Haaland both scored two goals. If you bet any good player, they automatically score. This has been a dream. The two-goal bet too, right? [37:44] If you're in the Holland, two goals with Norway to win, which is usually like four to one, five to one. [37:49] You're just cleaning up on those. What were you going to say, CR? I was just going to ask whether or not you thought there would be much of a post- [37:58] post-tournament kind of accounting of like the Balogun red card and Trump getting involved in sports karma or anything like that. [38:06] I think if the game wasn't such a blowout, I don't think. Right. [38:11] If he scores and we went 2-1, or if he scores the final 10, yeah, it's a much bigger story. Trump could have done anything he wanted and we weren't going to beat Belgium in that game. The fact that they were just wrestling guys that would have been two of our best five guys, I don't know. I think that one will come and go. I do think it was interesting, though. [38:33] It's an interesting precedent being set.

[38:36] of the president be like, huh, sports. [38:39] What if I should get in and throw my elbows around a little bit here? I think he has a very open audience in FIFA. Yeah, I mean, they conjured up a prize for him. Yeah, I think it's a two-way street. And, you know, one of the things that makes the World Cup so fascinating as a historical object is, like, the sort of in the crossing of the streams of politics and governments and different, you know, from these different countries and how they get involved with what happens on the field. [39:09] It was certainly like, holy shit, he's really doing this. Can you imagine if he had also gotten involved in the Jalen Brown trade? Yeah. I don't like this. I have a full investigation trying to figure out what the Celtics are doing here. He called it a veto. Yeah. Do you have a Jalen Brown trade opinion before we go? I know you did this on gambling show. I've always loved Jalen Brown. I'm so happy to have him. I think it is going to be weird. I'll be honest. We'll be a better regular season team. It's going to be fun. They had to do it. It makes a lot of sense. [39:37] I'm I'm [39:39] pleasantly intrigued, but I don't know. Things just always end badly. I'm programmed to expect the worst with the Sixers, much like I am with the U.S. men's national team in the round of 16. But you know what? [39:50] I already have my eyes on it. Copa America 2028. [39:53] We need to get more matches against good teams. We can't just keep beating up on CONCACAF, and that's going to be the chance to do that. Well, even in the 2020s, having... [40:01] This is the big difference between where we were 12 years ago, which a lot of the guys that we had out there are guys that are, you said this before the tournament,

[40:09] Guys that are in good leagues playing on good teams. So... [40:12] You figure that keeps going. That's going to be an interesting development over the course of the next couple of years. I saw a couple of MLS teams have been talking about they want their model to be like, we develop young players and sell them to Europe. That's going to be both financially good and it's also good for US soccer because those guys will then get experience in these leagues and making it less about the designated players and seeing if they can get a Messier or Lewandowski to come play for them. [40:39] Those kinds of [40:40] Developments are probably good for the USMNT, if bad for MLS, maybe, or maybe not. But the ultimate thing that they're going to really want is to create [40:49] How do U.S. national teams play and create this kind of... [40:54] playing identity that I think Poach could probably do. I just don't know if he's going to stick around for the long haul. [40:59] I hope he does. I love Mauricio Pochettino. He has done such a great job with this team. And I know today went really badly. [41:07] But I still think he's the man for the job. And look, he's bought in. We like him. He likes us. [41:12] Kumbaya. Let's have fun. [41:15] The Netflix audience, we did a little poll who's going to win the World Cup. And Netflix audience says France, but only 54%. [41:22] Who was second? [41:23] I don't know. How didn't tell me who was second. I'll tell you this. If Norway sticks around 16 to 1, 17 to 1, that's just a fuck it bet for me. It would be very England to go win at the Azteca and then show up flat Saturday. [41:37] um the bundo

[41:40] We can hear on the Ringer Gambling Show. Keep doing those social media clips you're doing as well. And we'll have to have you on one more time before the end of the... [41:47] World Cup. I'm sad, but [41:50] We press on. There's more soccer to be had. We're going to take a break, and I'm going to come back with old friend Jason Katsepsian right after this. [41:57] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Michelob Ultra. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. [42:10] The stakes... [42:11] are just this high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra. [42:22] From the pitch, [42:23] To the poor. [42:24] Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash SuperiorAccess slash... [42:31] FIFA World Cup 2-6. [42:34] Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus begins on December 1st, 2025 ends. [42:44] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit www.mickelobalcher.com slash superioraccess.com. [42:52] slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [42:58] All right, CR is still here. I am. [43:01] Old friend, Chase Concepcionis here. You can hear him on the Wait a Second podcast. I made an appearance early. I'm due for another appearance. Ironically...

[43:10] Cut back a little on the pods the next couple of weeks, probably... [43:14] one to two a week for the next three weeks. One of the reasons is I got to do my Zodiac deep dive. Got to get ready for this, my Zodiac killer, wait a second appearance. Jason, you just watched the USA game. We just covered it for 40 minutes, but give us, give us your takes watching from afar. [43:33] My main takeaway was I knew we were in trouble when we were doubling up. [43:38] Leo Trossard early. I knew we were in trouble when Leo Trossard, who is one of my favorites for Arsenal super sub microwave score as an Arsenal supporter, love him. He's maybe 5'7". I don't know what the stats on him are, but he's holding off our defenders like he was prime Shaq. And I knew at that point, like, we just didn't have... [44:02] the physicality. [44:04] to be in this game. We came out soft. We looked like we were afraid of contact. We didn't initiate any contact. We weren't getting up in the air. And just a bad... [44:15] performance all around at every level. [44:19] You know what I realized? Actually, just over the last 40 minutes, Jason. What's that? Sierra's Team England. No, that's not. Come on. This is the good son. Be respectful. No, you're sad. You're sad we lost, but really deep down. I have dual citizenship in the globe of soccer. An England thing. No, you let go of Macaulay Culkin tonight, and you're holding on to Elijah Wood. England.

[44:40] that's what's happening have you been obsessed with the World Cup Jason what's been your relationship with it I love the World Cup I've been much like [44:51] Alexi Lalas, I've been waiting with bated breath, lo, these 20, it feels like, years but more, for the U.S. to kind of [45:04] finally upshift out of this [45:07] get one game... [45:09] into the knockouts and then get knocked out. [45:11] mode, which it seems like no matter what the talent is. And certainly I think this is the most offensively capable of, [45:20] team, [45:21] that I can remember seeing since I started paying attention, we still got knocked out because... [45:28] Listen, there's a reason that Tim Ream at 38 is still starting for the squad. And that's because... [45:36] you saw what the team looked like against Turkey. And, um, [45:42] it wasn't good when he didn't play. And so we're just not [45:46] there's always something, and this time it was that we just couldn't get organized in the back and just looked shambolic, had a good strategy, I think, but just didn't execute in moments, and it all fell apart once again. It's just like in basketball in a playoff series when somebody is like, that guy can't defend. Everything runs at him. I think they knew [46:05] Ream in certain circumstances was going to be a problem for us. His athleticism is much diminished and I think that they started saying, let's test this dude. Then he kind of went on tilt a little bit, I think, but

[46:19] We got picked on in that department. Yeah, it's funny. I really got into soccer 08-09 range was when I really started to become watching it and trying to understand it. Who can forget your brief love affair with Tottenham Hotspur? Yeah, and if you go back to my archives, there's a couple decent calls. It's been read multiple times to me over the course of a couple weeks, yeah. And then my daughter started playing, and I was in this whole club soccer world. One of her first coaches said something that has always stuck with me ever since. [46:49] to 11s. [46:51] You go from 9v9 to 11v11. [46:54] And the coach said, yeah, 11s are tough because if you don't have 11, you're [46:59] The ball always finds the person you don't want it to find. [47:02] And it felt like we had... [47:04] The two for me was poor Reem, who's 38, not totally his fault. And then Dest, who I just didn't really trust. And it just felt like... [47:12] And they also kept attacking the sides, too, in a way that I thought seemed intentional in the first half. But just felt like the ball was always finding the wrong people in this game. And that's what happens in soccer. Yeah. [47:24] Death was completely washed. It was tough. [47:27] Yeah, and if I was going to take a kind of silver lining, I think these are the kinds of problems that more accomplished nations also face where you're like, oh man, well, we haven't quite figured out right back or we haven't quite figured out the right side of our midfield or we need a center back to replace Reem. Other countries have had to deal with stuff like this. We don't necessarily have... [47:48] the most eye-popping talent pool where you're like, well, obviously this dude is coming next. But I'm sure there are US soccer freaks out there who are like screaming at their televisions or their phones right now being like, I know who's next, it's coming, you know? But it's like, I think that, I think we're actually, the problems that we have are good problems to have.

[48:07] They're soccer problems, not like, can anybody on this team play? [48:12] Right. [48:13] I agree. I completely agree with that. I think that the... [48:16] Thank you. [48:17] people forget, like, you look at the World Cup, and it's like everybody mostly plays bad. Even the really good teams mostly play below their level. I think part of the thing that's so frustrating for the U.S. is, like, [48:30] We're bad at... [48:32] at [48:33] minimizing the holes in our squad and that seems to be a recurring issue year after year and and for instance like i'm not saying that we should become overnight like a paraguay style shithousery squad right yeah that would be pretty funny but we're like but [48:54] We're never pulling a jersey, like ever. [48:59] Hardly ever are we pulling a jersey. Hardly ever are we going hard into a tackle on purpose. And it's like those little things... [49:08] can minimize some of your shortcomings sometimes. And we just, [49:13] We're we play like we're above that sometimes. And to your point, CR, it's also the fact that while this is the most talent, [49:21] that I can remember seeing, particularly on the offensive side, it's also not [49:25] Great. We don't have any world-class players. Yeah. [49:29] It would be nice to have a top six Premier League player, like a top six club guy on our team. And we just don't yet. [49:37] Do we need like a Draymond Green type?

[49:41] We brainwash. That's a luxury. It's like a midfield there. It's just like he's just getting very close to the line game after game. You're worried about him. [49:50] He could also pass and play in tight spaces. Like if we, you know, if we could somehow produce a, if we could somehow produce a busquets, like you want to produce an Argentinian, basically, somehow, you know? [50:02] JC who is your MVP of the World Cup so far? [50:06] We still have two weeks left. I think Holland, just in the way that he's captured people's imagination. And in the way that [50:15] He just always scores. He always scores, and you know what's going to happen. He seems to lollygag through... [50:22] periods of play where he's just kind of strolling around and then he sees... [50:27] a sequence unfolding. He just is in the right spot. The way he runs, you know, the way he seems to play up. [50:35] his Viking ogre kind of image at moments and his clear sense of humor. I just think, [50:43] He's been unreal. He's been dealing at an unreal level. CR, no John Wick bad guy stuff for him or anything? Is Hollywood investigating him at all? He's in Manchester City, so nobody... [50:56] except for was likes them uh and so it's like he plays for the the most sort of like evil empire team that's in the premier league i think uh okay but you know if i just to go along with what jason's saying like holland would be my my number one pick and number two one a

[51:12] would be messy. [51:14] who could be doing a 2019 Tigers Masters year. You know, like, yeah, it could be like going out like, like, like the goat that he is. [51:22] Yeah, and Bellingham, I think, is the other one who... [51:25] Even the real soccer fans know who that is, but the super casual ones are like, wow, this guy's really good. Number 10 on England. I think he's, I think he was just incredible in the Mexico game yesterday. [51:36] For some Man City context, Bill, they're currently facing 115 Premier League charges for circumventing their version of the salary cap. So it would be like if [51:48] Aspiration times 100. There were 115 Kawhis. Yeah. And you're talking to an Arsenal and a Liverpool fan. So yes, we do take it personally. Yes, we do take it personally. Well, it's funny. When I was thinking about, when I was trying to pick my EPL team in 07, everyone was telling me how they were the Clippers. They were like the sad sack Clippers. Yeah. And then that quickly flipped. Favorite national anthem, JC? Wow. Anything really knock your socks off as we hear we get to your 48 days? [52:18] Yeah, Mexico was great last night. Mexico was bone chilling last night. I will also say one note I have for Poach and Team USA. I love, why don't we do the arms around each other? [52:35] Wait for John Denver or during the anthem? Just during the anthem. Everybody else is like arm in arm and singing it. It's a good note. And we're like a foot away from everybody.

[52:45] I think France's anthem is still really strong. Yeah. [52:48] Yeah, Marcelin is great. [52:50] Yeah, I think that's way up there, too. There's been... [52:53] There's been some clunkers. I don't want to name any countries, but there's a couple where like, wow, that's it? That's what you're rolling with? You know, with the Brazil anthem, when it's in Brazil, you're like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever heard. But when it plays at MetLife, you're kind of like, where's this one going? Because it just doesn't have the entire crowd into it. CR, what would be your move? Would you be a... [53:19] close your eyes and sing, or would you be a belted out, or would you just be trying to stay cool? I think personally, I would go the route of the Mexico players who are just crying and screaming at the top of their lungs. I am not too cool for the anthem, like in that case. Yeah. [53:34] Would you do that, JC? A little crying? Some tears? I would definitely, you would see the cords in my neck standing out. That would be the level of intensity. Bill, you would be like Nick Sirianni, just like tears bubbling out of your face, but no singing. No, I would do the head back with the eyes closed, the intense one. I always think that one. [53:56] That one looks really great. Who do you have winning the cup? [53:58] Jason. I mean, this is... [54:02] Not. [54:03] like some wild prediction but i think this is france's tournament [54:07] Oh, this means it's not going to happen. Everybody's saying that. Usually when everybody agrees on that, then the rules of soccer have to trump it somehow. I picked Spain to win it, but I picked Spain to win it based on this.

[54:20] The stupid idea I had that Germany was going to beat France earlier. And obviously that was quite wrong. So don't listen to me. But it just does seem like whatever game you want to play, France can play it. You want to have a shootout, they'll kill you. If you want to try and kick them, they don't care. If you want to sit back, they don't care. There's nothing you can do to really fluster them unless what Dibundo said, which is like, can Spain keep the ball away from them forever? Yeah. [54:49] The only thing you can do to fluster France is to give them a lead with two minutes left in an NBA game. And then they'll just start whipping the ball around. [55:03] CR, what would... [55:05] How many more wins does England need now? [55:07] The quarter sent me three more wins. [55:10] Thank you. [55:11] Would that change your life? I think I'm from Philadelphia. I think it would be incredible for my family. I wish I would be there. I'm sure it would be [55:21] just an amazing experience to be in england for that to happen that's actually where my parents met was during the the 66 world cup so it would be very tempting to want to go over there for the [55:33] But it is... [55:36] it's still like I'm playing dress up a little bit. I can't shed the soccer hipster accusations. [55:44] Who are you rooting for, JC? Who's your team now? You're just jumping on Norway, that's it? For years, I've been... [55:50] And I remain this. It's France with the Netherlands as a backup. So obviously France. But now I'm going France, Norway.

[55:59] Okay. Okay. I'm going to root for Norway and I'm going to bet on them at 17 to one or whatever the hell it is and do it that way. I don't think that's that bad of a bet. [56:07] Yeah, I don't. [56:08] This episode is brought to you by TikTok. Did you know you can use TikTok to connect even more with the sports you love? It's not just highlights, it's everything around the game, including the sports community. Find breakdowns of classic basketball plays, deep dives on baseball stats, even videos on how athletes train and recover. [56:25] There are people teaching strategy, sports, history, even ways to improve your jump shot. [56:30] It's kind of like the biggest locker room ever and everyone's sharing what they know. [56:35] on TikTok. [56:36] This episode is brought to you by State Farm. [56:39] Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip-off, day after day on the same court. [56:45] with the State Farm stanchion right there. That's right. The best players ever. [56:50] Put in the work. And State Farm is the same way with insurance experts who put in the work as well. Whether you get a digital quote, [56:57] or reach out to a local agent. [56:59] State Farm is there to get to know you. [57:01] and help you select the right coverage that fits your life, [57:05] and your budget. [57:06] Putting in the work is what separates the good players from the great. And that's why you want State Farm. [57:10] on your team. [57:12] So get the coverage that's right for you. [57:14] Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary. [57:20] by state. [57:22] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the FIFA World Cup 26. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. The stakes are just this high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra, from the pitch to the poor, superior is worth playing for. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com

[57:52] World Cup 2-6. [57:54] Michelob Ultra of FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access. [57:58] No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends. [58:04] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit www.mickelobalture.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [58:17] So now we have soccer dying. [58:19] Um, we're going to go down to less games and then the tournament's going to be over. And then we're all going to be staring at each other. Wimbledon's is about as boring as it gets. [58:26] basketball, [58:29] we are now moving into this [58:31] LeBron, he's orchestrated this perfectly. You can't pretend like nothing is happening in sports when we can do a frame-by-frame analysis of Brad Stevens' press conference today. So that was the most exciting thing that happened non-soccer today was the Celtics press conference, which I respect that they had to say what they're going to say, but on the one hand, we didn't want to have 70% of the cap tied up with two guys. [58:55] Okay. [58:56] But then they also tried to trade for Giannis, who would have tied the cap up with 70%. And also, Paul George makes $50 million a year. [59:05] I still don't know. Jason, you haven't, Sierra and I have talked about this in the pot already. You haven't given your take yet. What is it? [59:11] Well, my take was, and I'm waiting for it, is the... [59:15] classic Brian Curtis, now they tell a story, because it simply must be there. The only answer to this is,

[59:26] All the whispering about the relationship between Tatum and Brown, all that stuff must have really amounted to something. And they really must have felt like, listen, Brown is not going to. [59:40] submit to the kind of team that this was in the past and we will not dedicate ourselves to the kind of team that brown wants and it's going to be a problem if we let it [59:50] go any further than this. Clearly, they were under the gun. And... [59:55] It's interesting that Brad Stevens said nothing that betrayed them being under the gun. He made it, you know, to your point, he really framed it as a purely fiscal decision when it's like, don't you still have two players left? [1:00:06] amounting to that much money. Well, he did use the word usage, which I thought was the one slip. Where he was like, when you have 70% of your cap tied into two players' [1:00:20] and a high usage for those two players. [1:00:23] came to the conclusion that this isn't going to work. And I thought usage means... [1:00:28] We don't need to pay two guys... [1:00:30] to just trade dueling banjos anymore with the way the league is. Was my interpretation, is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. It's exactly, I mean, he was like, it's kind of like what Kirk said during the colonoscopy pod when he was just like, they want to be, oh, you're the one who called the pod that. I know, now that is what it's called now.

[1:00:50] It's like they wanted to be a one contract team. They want, well, that's what they say they wanted. Yes, they were looking for Giannis. Maybe they feel like Giannis was like this big. Or a better trade asset they could have spun or whatever. I don't think we're going to know who won this trade or whether it was a giant mistake by Boston until next spring. Because I think they'll be, you were saying this with Zach, they're going to be good in the regular season. They're going to be good. Has good regular season basketball teams. They play. It's going to be good. Hugo will be better. Shia, I'm going to be better. [1:01:20] Thank you. [1:01:22] I don't think it's going to happen just because I think they're so conscious – [1:01:27] about what's happened with the Red Sox and Patriots in years past when those pieces come out after the fact. [1:01:33] And everybody in Boston is too crazy about sports. [1:01:37] And has... [1:01:38] Knows all the signs and can read between the lines of pieces like that. [1:01:42] And I just, I don't think they're going to do it. I think they're going to take the high road if there is stuff. I don't, I don't see them doing it. The only stuff that's going to come out is this ancillary stuff. Like, [1:01:52] I talked about this on the pod a week ago, but Brown and Tatum being in France together, [1:01:57] but not interacting. [1:01:59] And people that were there like, this is weird. They're. [1:02:03] One guy's over there and just like, and... [1:02:05] Tatum taking forever. Kind of like how Embiid hasn't done the welcome to Philly post yet for Jalen Brown. You can read between the lines with some of this stuff, CR. You just can. [1:02:16] I, [1:02:17] I guess that's true. I mean, I saw that Embiid was at the Brazil match in full Brazil regalia. I was going to say, we might not have to wait for Now They Tell Us because we'll just have to wait for Jalen to do a Twitch stream where he's like, now I'll tell you. He did one the night that the trade happened and seemed to be pretty confused and pretty upset. And I think he's getting his head around becoming...

[1:02:42] a rival. He's going to a rival team. I think that he's a competitive dude and he probably was like, I will be a Celtic probably for life. The Celtics thing is so strange to me because there's on one [1:02:57] their relationship to their star players and those players' relationship to the city. But this modern era has been about turnover. I mean, Isaiah Thomas, the Kyrie and Gordon Hayward iteration, Paul Pierce and KG being traded to Brooklyn. Those guys don't sell late. [1:03:13] you know, like whatever they do. They did it with Marcus Smart. Yeah, they don't like, it's like, yeah, we're going to take a beating for two months and then people are going to be going to be back at the garden. So like, I respect it. I think that sometimes they get a little bit of like. [1:03:27] uh, [1:03:28] They get a little bit too much leeway when it comes to where we're a... [1:03:32] institution that really respects the players who play for us and keeps them in our hearts. And it's like, you guys fucking trade people when they have dislocated hips. Give me a break. Right. [1:03:41] Oh, geez, CR. I'm just saying. It was a heart fall. I'm in a lot of pain this week. No, I mean, the Isaiah Thomas thing was tough to defend, but that was previous ownership. I will say the new owner, Chisholm, looked like he was getting a root canal during that press conference. Yeah. You go from like, oh, my God, I bought my favorite team. [1:04:01] I'm going to bring my whole family. We're sitting courtside. This is so great. I'm having such a good time. And now... [1:04:07] the worm has turned. If Jason was still a writer, we were still doing this, we would probably have a Tom Dundon, Matt Ishbia, Bill Chisholm

[1:04:17] group chat posts that we were manufacturing. With that in mind, CR, here is what I would pitch to you and be like, CR, I'm working on a take. I don't. This is all I have. But help me flesh this out, because I think this is a piece. [1:04:32] The second apron era was, [1:04:34] has turned... [1:04:36] every owner into James Dolan. Yes, that's a great take. [1:04:41] High turnover. You're drinking Dolan juice. Every contract is a bad contract. [1:04:48] It's like so hard to be smart. The cap fights against itself. To retain your best player, you have to give them a contract that's [1:04:58] Immediately backed. [1:05:00] Immediately. And it's all about depth now, but like the rosters are squeezed and... [1:05:06] inevitably, [1:05:08] Everybody who's smart looks dumb under this regime. Yeah, even look at Mark Walters and the Lakers. The Dodgers would keep LeBron on the team and just have him wave at the crowd every night. They don't care about money, but he obviously knows that that team is going to be decimated if they have Luka, LeBron, and AR all on that salary tier. So you're right, Jason. It's just like the idea of a Cuban or a Balmer who's going to be like, I'll just spend my way out of it. [1:05:38] Nope, it's not going to happen anymore. [1:05:40] Well, this starts... [1:05:42] previous version of this, the connected tissue was the Bradley Beal contract where the Wizards were like, fuck, what are we going to do? He's our best player.

[1:05:52] And the moment they sign it, [1:05:54] it becomes one of the worst contracts in the league. [1:05:57] Now we have the next version of this, which is... [1:06:00] you kind of can't have two of these. [1:06:02] So the Pistons are, you know, Pistons won 61 games last year. [1:06:07] They didn't even know if they wanted to bring Durham back because the moment that contract is $8 million a year too high, it has all of these crazy ramifications. The other way, when Brown signed for $304 million, the mistake in retrospect was – [1:06:21] Maybe trying to knock that number down a little, but it was Wick, the previous owner. He wanted to take care of his guys. They just won the title. [1:06:29] And, and, uh... [1:06:31] You know, it plays out the way it plays out. But it's weird to hear a team say, [1:06:36] Look, man, I know he was sixth MVP last year, but that contract's a little too rich for my blood. Like, we do ringer... [1:06:43] Ringer 100, I don't care where you have Jalen, but if you had him outside the top 20, that would have been insane. [1:06:50] And there's 30 teams. Yeah, I think there's a corrosive... [1:06:54] effect that we're going to see over time too where you know there's a connection with players that yeah yeah [1:07:01] Fit. [1:07:02] cities have. And [1:07:05] I mean, I'm watching that video of the kid crying because Jalen Brown was his favorite player. It's like, that's, [1:07:13] That's real. That happens. And that's, [1:07:16] I think if you have a system that's based on just too much of that, [1:07:21] Who knows what you lose? Like obviously the parody era of,

[1:07:25] from the perspective of the actual parody is a success. They wanted to create this and they've created it with eight new champions in a row. It's unprecedented. Um, [1:07:36] But... [1:07:38] The League was built on a specific kind of dominance that allowed characters to develop over time with characters. [1:07:46] the fan base and there is a connection with, with, [1:07:51] teams and with the communities around them that maybe is getting severed, you know, and is that good? [1:07:57] And also with this model of having one big star and then a lot of turnover in your two through 10, say, of your roster. It's the football model. It's the quarterback with everybody else. I mean, like the Sixers have kind of done that. [1:08:11] around Embiid and Star 2 over the last 10 years. [1:08:15] And it's... [1:08:16] It's soul deadening after a while where you're like, who is this year's Marco Bellinelli? Who is this year's JJ Redick? Who is this year's Robert Covington? Who is this year's XYZ? It's kind of awesome. Even though the Knicks were like thrown somewhat thrown together, you know, Mitchell Robinson was the longest tenured Knick. [1:08:34] It's kind of awesome to watch that core come together piece by piece over the years and [1:08:38] and develop and build out. And like those guys are now folk, folk heroes. Like they'll never buy another drink. [1:08:44] or a Chipotle label in New York City again. And [1:08:48] And fewer and fewer teams are going to have that if they all abide by this. Like, well, we can have one star and then it's up to the GM to just find like the right rotation of guys every year.

[1:08:58] It's a huge issue for the league. [1:09:01] I don't think they see it. I think they're just focused on how much can we make from the media deal? Can we add two expansion teams? Can we grow the league? Can we create NBA Europe? [1:09:11] Every decision they're making is financial, which includes this last CBA. [1:09:15] where you had this second apron, [1:09:17] And I've talked about this with other sports too. You're basically, it's a protection against yourself. Yeah. [1:09:23] It's... [1:09:24] It's like if if. [1:09:26] Like I give one of my kids like a credit card they can use, but it's got a limit on it. And it's like, if you go over the limit, the card just automatically can't. It only uses the gas station. Yeah. That's what the second apron is. It's like, yeah, you can, you can go above the second apron, but your picks get frozen. You can't make two for one trades. [1:09:42] Um, there's all these tax repeater shit that happens and you have to be a fucking idiot. [1:09:48] And you see somebody like James Dolan who... [1:09:50] you know, has not been shy about spending money. That's for sure. He gives away every courtside seat around the team. Like it, [1:09:57] on the one hand, doesn't seem to care about money at all, but even he understands, yeah, we can't have Mitchell Robinson anymore. [1:10:03] We're going to have to replace him with Andre Drummond, and he'll cost... [1:10:06] $12 million less, but this is... [1:10:09] what we have to do. By the way, since Jaycee's here, you haven't been on the podcast since the Knicks won the 2020 NBA championship. He's been on an ayahuasca trip since then. Yeah. What happened? Truly. Was it like the end of the Odyssey? What was it like for you? Don't give away the end of the Odyssey here. Spoiler on a 3,000-year-old story. Yeah, people know the work.

[1:10:33] I can honestly say that... [1:10:36] Game four into game five. [1:10:38] was the peak of my life. I'm not even joking. It was the most remarkable period of my life that I've ever felt. I flew back to the parade. It was just like... I had gotten to a point in my life... [1:10:55] You watch 20 years of bad Knicks teams after the 90s. So I got to a point where I was like, you know what? [1:11:01] Let's just be good. Let's just get in the mix. [1:11:04] Get in the playoffs every year. Be respectable. Don't be a dumpster fire. Don't be a scandal-plagued 17-win team. Just compete. And I'm fine with that. So I had... [1:11:17] Put away. [1:11:19] For real. [1:11:20] Any... [1:11:21] Actual hope. [1:11:23] that I would ever see this. And to see it has been incredible. So it's like you're in the rom-com where you're giving up on love and then finally you found somebody on a trip to Tuscany. That is 100% right. Now, I will say this, and this is very not like [1:11:39] Me? [1:11:41] After we, [1:11:42] Smoked. [1:11:43] The Cavs. [1:11:44] smoke that Cavs pack in the Eastern Conference Finals. I was texting, you know, my Knicks groups and I'm like, [1:11:52] I think we're going to win it. I think we're going to win it. Especially if we got the Spurs. Just looking at the underlying stuff, we beat them, what was it, two out of three in the season. Pretty comprehensively on the same game plan every time. We almost beat them in the game we lost. You guys won the cup against them, right? Won the cup against them in a game that they were trying to win. The Knicks did the double. They did. Didn't get no credit for it. When do you raise the banner?

[1:12:22] separate the banners? What happens? There should be a double banner with an attachment where the cup attaches to the bottom of the regular banner. And let me also say, [1:12:33] Thank you. [1:12:34] to critique Adam Silver a little bit more. [1:12:38] that's his baby, the cup. [1:12:40] And the fact that they didn't play up [1:12:43] Much more. This historic double that has happened. A new bar has been set for NBA greatness. A new bar in an era of parity. In an era of parity, a new bar has been set. [1:12:57] The Cup predicted the NBA Finals, and for the first time in its history, a team has gone [1:13:02] done the double, won both. [1:13:05] And that should be trumpeted everywhere. [1:13:09] And it frankly hasn't. And that is a miss from Adam Silver. The 53 years felt like it kind of trumped the cup. [1:13:17] Which I understand. Yeah, I get it. When they were down... [1:13:20] A lot of points in game four. [1:13:22] Sure. [1:13:24] Because this... [1:13:25] I went through basically the same experience you did with the Red Sox in game four and game five against the Yankees. Yes. Where it's like two these sporting events that just blend together now where I don't even remember what happened in what game anymore. Yeah. [1:13:39] But there were also a couple of dark moments where you really look at your past [1:13:44] And you think like, oh, man, and that the real doubt starts creeping in. What was that must have happened in game four a couple of times, right? Game four, it wasn't the full existential doubt because I still thought.

[1:13:55] You thought you were better. I thought, yeah, I thought we'd go back to... [1:13:59] Especially after, yeah, I thought we were the better team. And I thought we were going to win this series. So I thought, okay, we go back to San Antonio. I think we can still win this series. But. [1:14:08] That said, [1:14:10] down 29 in the second quarter, I just turned the sound off. I'm like, okay, this is a wash. We're not winning this game. Well, yeah, Trump game three, flipping the karma, and then down 29 in game four. Absolutely. And despite the fact that I'd seen all these [1:14:26] comebacks now, going back, [1:14:29] two, three seasons. I was just like, okay, you know, just like, that's it. We're not going to get this one. That's fine. And, um, [1:14:36] I didn't start to get, like, feel that, [1:14:39] I mean, it was 2018, like, in the middle third and even into that fourth. But. [1:14:46] When they couldn't, [1:14:48] When the Spurs couldn't make it more than that, [1:14:51] I started to get, you know, I started to get really interested. And then, you know, as the run was developing, you started to feel it. And they just, the Spurs look so tired. They looked absolutely gassed. I thought the one, you know, obviously the Knicks don't want to go down double digits early in every single game, but it was very smart of them that, [1:15:11] No matter how many blocks Wemby would have in the first quarter, they just kept running at him. Run at him. Make him jump. Make him turn around. Make him react to things. And it's like a boss battle where you're just chipping away at the energy bar of the video game boss so that you get to the end and he's tired. And that's what happened. Every single game followed that exact battle.

[1:15:32] plan. [1:15:33] CR, do you think new Spurs head coach Billy Donovan will be able to fix some of that stuff? [1:15:39] I don't know if he has the title yet. We forgot to put you on this Google Meet, Mitch. My bad. [1:15:46] Hey guys, was there a meeting? No, no, no. We just didn't want to waste your time, honestly. I just got together with the other assistants. We just wanted to come up with some ideas for you. No, you want to give a speech? Go for it. Yeah. We'll just circle back afterwards and maybe just clean that up a little bit. [1:16:03] from how we did Hand That Rocks the Crate where she hires Rebecca DeMornay. Don't hire Rebecca DeMornay as your daddy. [1:16:11] It's like, I'm Billy Donovan. He's only won a couple titles and coached two other teams. That was really, actually, Jason's description of this whole experience was so moving that I'm going to trash the joke I was going to make about them raising not only the NBA Finals banner, the cup banner, but also the contract of payments, of dark money payments to Jalen Brunson that they're obviously making. Can we do that on Wait a Second? Can we, can we? [1:16:36] Let me just say this, and I'll say this in complete sincerity, that it's just a thing that I've noticed, and I think everything is above board. It is notable, like, the massive... [1:16:48] jump in production level that the roommate's pod underwent. [1:16:52] Like kind of suddenly. Yeah. Oh, but that being said, like I, I am completely, I believe that everything is above board and, and right. Let me ask you this. Did you guys feel like it was a red flag in the moment? How much Popovich was talking to the team and making speeches?

[1:17:12] I didn't think it was a good thing. [1:17:14] I don't know what, yeah, it was just, it was weird that they were bringing him in a part. And I wonder if the Spurs would rather that had not got out, or if the Spurs were like, get this out, that Pop is still like the Newt Rockne of this team. [1:17:27] Did you guys hear their film in the roommate's pod in 70mm starting in September? 70mm IMAX? They have Nolan's cinematographer. Yeah. [1:17:42] This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T-Mobile Home Run Derby is right around the corner. Might be one of the best showcases of pure power in all sports. Baseball's [1:17:51] Biggest sluggers. [1:17:53] along with some legendary [1:17:54] Announcers, Pujols, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia, El Duncan. [1:17:59] Yeah. [1:18:00] Hunter Pence, Matt Faskersian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. [1:18:07] You swing. [1:18:08] to make history. I'm interested to see what Bond says about this, actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park. [1:18:14] In Philly, watch the T-Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. [1:18:22] This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? [1:18:32] You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists. So everything's working together toward your goals. [1:18:39] Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner.

[1:18:42] Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com. [1:18:51] So what TV are we supposed to watch as the World Cup winds down, JC? [1:18:57] Oh, wow. What are you into these days? Second season of The Agency, which is a show I know that cares about, which is itself an adaptation of [1:19:08] Le Bureau de l'Agence from French television is out and I think it's [1:19:15] It's not as good as the Bureau, but to me, it's good enough. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. And the changes they made to make it to, you know, kind of like American intelligence it more just hit for me. And so I can run that back. I haven't watched one episode. Can I bang that out this? Oh, yeah. You like it. I think you like it. Yeah. [1:19:36] Is it shame Fassbender or just Fassbender? It's Fassbender pretending to be an American spy, and it doesn't totally work, but it's still pretty good. Weird sex with his mate or anything? No, he's basically playing like... [1:19:49] Yeah, I mean, he has some weird sex, but still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's part of the course with him. Yeah, he's a spy. [1:19:56] CR, what's been your favorite thing of the summer? There's a show on Apple called Star City. [1:20:02] It's like a spinoff of another show they have called For All Mankind. And it's set in the Soviet space program in the 60s and 70s. And it's really great. That sounds like CR Mad Libs. I can only be me.

[1:20:16] They have one of the co-showrunners of the Americans. [1:20:21] It's the For All Man guy, guys, but it's really good. I've been hate-watching the living hell out of Cape Fear. [1:20:28] which I think is one of the worst shows I've seen in the last five, six years. And now [1:20:33] It's hit the point it's six episodes in. [1:20:36] I could tap out right now and not even care about what happened or do I just hate watch my way through the rest of this? I'm more interested like [1:20:46] When shows like this, when they don't work and they become campy, [1:20:49] Trying to read the signs of some of the, like they have good actors in this. Like when did Amy Adams felt like around episode four, episode five. I think when Amy Adams showed up on set and she was like, wait, you guys aren't all doing accents. It's just me. Right. The hope was starting to flicker out of her eyes. I would say one of the things Apple does amazingly well from a comedy standpoint, it's the worst parenting you've ever seen in your life. [1:21:18] And they'll do it over and over again with these wealthy families, some sort of drama crisis thing. And Apple's just like... [1:21:26] do you think it'd be weird if the, if these parents didn't care that their kid chopped his toe off and seems like a complete maniac and a destructive force to others and like might be putting himself or other people in danger. Like, no, it's like, Hey Bobby, we're going to go out for, for, for dinner tonight. You stay home with the dog. Um, they just, I don't know what it is. So I,

[1:21:47] Apple, this seems like their lane now, they have three different lanes, and one of these lanes is these wealthy... [1:21:53] crimey [1:21:55] families in disarray, couples that hate each other. Like prestige pulp. Yeah. Yeah. [1:22:00] It's like prestige divorce... [1:22:02] Divorce pulp. Yeah. Did you finish the bear, JC? [1:22:06] I did not finish the bear, but I'm getting ready to struggle through it with all respect to the bear. I was a fan of the final season. I think you'll... Okay. Especially the rest of the playoffs. Pit style? Pit style? [1:22:19] What's that? [1:22:20] They did pit style, just like everything in one day? It's set mostly in one day, yeah. [1:22:24] Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. [1:22:26] What are we missing now? CR, what are we missing now in the TV landscape? What are we not doing? [1:22:32] I mean, there's a lot of genre stuff on. Dragon's pretty good this year, I think. It's just that we don't really have, like... [1:22:41] I mean, we actually really don't have a White Lotus-y succession kind of like normal people behaving badly show that everybody kind of falls in love with. [1:22:51] Trying to think of what's coming that's even exciting. Feels like it's drifting back toward movies. I made this point six, seven weeks ago where... [1:23:01] I wonder if the creativity is starting. I finally saw Obsession. [1:23:05] Do you like it? Oh, [1:23:08] It was really good. I didn't love the lead actor would be my one. If Chalamet is in that movie, that's one of the best movies of all time. I think his bill is five times the budget of that movie. I get it. I'm just saying, if you put Chalamet in that lead part, we're talking about this movie for 25 years from now. I'm sure you did not see this, but the main actress from that movie, Indy Navaretti,

[1:23:32] Oh, he too? [1:23:33] He too. [1:23:34] Don't you know me at this point when you're like, I'm sure you didn't see this. Well, you were in the Odyssey all day. Oh, like anything happens without me knowing with Heat 2? [1:23:45] I have this question, actually, speaking of Heat. [1:23:48] It's a mailback question from Victor. [1:23:51] Long time fan, die hard magic fan in Orlando. Recently, I was rewatching The Town and the entire Fenway heist was for $3 million. [1:24:00] realizing this is what Bismack Biambo made for the Spurs this season had me thinking. Are the prizes in heist movies too small? [1:24:09] Or are NBA contracts too big? What would Neil McCauley have had to do to get a year of Devin Booker's salary? [1:24:15] You're the best man to resolve this issue. I have noticed this in some of our heist things where they're like, we got to take this down. [1:24:22] And I want it to be like $29 million or something. You almost wonder if they should go back in ADR. Because if you go back to the 1950s Noirs and they're robbing a horse racetrack and it's like, what's the take? Ten grand. We got it. Ten grand, guys. It's like, maybe we should go back in and be like, a million dollars. It's like we were talking about when Jason was on for the Survivor. Yeah. [1:24:45] Oh, that Mr. Beast bumped it to $2 million. It's like, this was $1 million in 2000. The NBA salary cap was $18 million in 2000 or whatever. How is it not $10 million to win Survivor now? So Heist movie is higher. Would you bump it up, CR? [1:25:01] Yeah, but I think we actually have a lot of really ridiculous heist movies where they go for like, we're going to take a billion in crypto off this guy. It's just that those aren't as good as Den of Thieves and Heat in the Town and stuff.

[1:25:11] Do you want to, [1:25:13] quickly have the heat to conversation. Let's talk about Leo being shirrless. This is the thing that has been rumored for a long time. I think everybody was waiting to find out if he was going to be Neil [1:25:23] Or Chris. [1:25:24] And he's and he's sure he's going to be the star of the movie. [1:25:27] Thank you. [1:25:28] I get asked this question all the time, and I'm sure both of you do too, from people in our lives. Like, what do you think? Is this really happening? [1:25:35] Listen, I'm going to go... [1:25:38] You're going to go. I'm glad they're doing it. I'm obviously going to see it. I obviously care that it's happening. I am aware of every single casting, anything that's happened with this thing. [1:25:47] I'm just nervous. [1:25:50] This one... [1:25:51] We've seen this go wrong. I... [1:25:53] Ended up not seeing Gladiator 2 on the advice of many people. Just in general, some of the scary, bad sequels that we've had. [1:26:01] that you end up just kind of forgetting happened. [1:26:05] And Michael Mann, who, you know, our all-time favorite, he's been on nine rewatchables movies, including today with Ali. [1:26:13] But when you get directors in their 80s, JC... [1:26:16] Yeah. Gets a little dicey. Like, I don't know if I want people directing... [1:26:21] expensive movies or running my NFL team or there's just, [1:26:26] This was a conversation I was having with some friends recently. Like who is the director in their eighties historically who was like crushing it? [1:26:35] And, um, I, [1:26:37] I think that there are different... [1:26:41] variables like

[1:26:43] but at the [1:26:44] top level [1:26:46] of AAA type of movie. It's like, [1:26:50] kind of nobody. [1:26:53] The 70s even gets dicey. Yeah. [1:26:56] Kubrick still had the fastball to the very end. And to be fair to Michael Mann, he still... [1:27:02] From everything we've seen, Sammy recently still got it. [1:27:06] But yeah, people fall off pretty quick. It is. The difference is it's not just him making a movie, but I would support if he was 100 years old to want to make a movie. It's just... [1:27:16] Why haven't we done He Too before now? Why are we doing it now? I know he wrote the book. [1:27:22] But is it worth doing? Yeah, I mean, you could say, and I will hear the argument that this is like Ridley Scott returning to the alien universe where it's like... [1:27:31] But really, Scott Lee can still make two movies a year. And they're not always that good. And he shoots with five cameras. And it seems like he's getting a little fast and a little sloppy. The thing... [1:27:41] That gives me some confidence in Heat 2 specifically is the presence of Jerry Bruckheimer, who himself is not a spring chicken, 82 years old. [1:27:48] but is one of the great showmans. [1:27:51] And I hope [1:27:53] the combined forces of these two very old men [1:27:57] will make up for whatever deficiencies the other has and make sure that this is like, I just don't think DiCaprio signs on for this and is like, let's hope it's okay. [1:28:06] It is true. He has that impeccable taste over the years. And we do have the IP. We know what it is. And he has to know there's going to be three things in this movie that I do that people are going to be breathless over. And...

[1:28:22] Otherwise, I just don't know why. Why didn't he just do Ferrari then or whatever else? He just doesn't make his choices idly. [1:28:31] Well, [1:28:32] I saw... [1:28:33] I won't spoil anything from the Odyssey today because I know you guys haven't seen it. There's also an embargo on it, I think. The only thing I'll say is Chris Nolan, guy who... [1:28:46] You know, over the course of a long movie, there's going to be a couple set pieces in there. [1:28:51] Always. Like when you're watching an awesome... [1:28:53] WWE championship match. There's going to be a couple bumps that they thought about ahead of time. And that you're going to be like, holy shit. [1:29:01] And that's, that's what a Michael man, when his movies are really cooking. [1:29:07] They'll have like three, four sections in there. [1:29:09] That you're just like, wow. The stuff I'm most looking forward to in Heat 2 also is stuff that hasn't, [1:29:17] That is not heat. [1:29:18] It'll be either in the desert or it'll be in Central America or whatever, and it'll be different than heat. So the city stuff will be cool, but I'm looking forward if they bring it page for page out for that stuff. [1:29:32] There's another existential question here, JC. [1:29:38] - You know, CR's obviously known Sean longer than me. [1:29:41] they've been friends since when? mid 2000s? Early 2000s yeah. [1:29:46] You've done a lot of big picture appearances with him. You've seen a lot of movies. We started the rewatchables from a Heat podcast we did. Heat, I feel like, is RIP. And I'm really going to be interested to see how you handle this. I'd be interested to see how you handle this. I think with Heat, too, I feel like that's...

[1:30:05] I feel like I should be in pole position for the first part of the CR. You are in pole position, Bill. [1:30:10] I don't know. Maybe American defense. [1:30:13] Why not all of you? [1:30:15] Why not? Why not? I'll we try them for it. [1:30:18] Maybe that's what needs to happen. Because I think... Let me just say as a fan. [1:30:24] There's a, [1:30:25] Fan of y'all also. That's what I want to see is that trio. [1:30:31] JC's saying don't choose CR that it should just be me and Sean together, the three of us. [1:30:36] for heat too. Okay. I don't know. Maybe, maybe American, maybe we do a poll. America votes. America votes. But we're off. We've done, we did the three heat or the four heat? Well, we've done two heats and Michael Mann. We have not done four heat yet. [1:30:51] I'm ready because I have... [1:30:53] I have some thoughts from recent watches. [1:30:56] I have more heat opinions. I didn't think I had any more heat opinions. We still have a couple of ways to go. We can do the blind heat rewatch, no notes. We can do heat, but we're not allowed to talk about De Niro, Pacino. There's still a couple of tricks up our sleeve. Oh, that was my favorite one where we give De Niro and Pacino a red card in the first minute of the pod. They're just out of the pod. We're resting them for heat five. You're not allowed to do a Pacino thing at all. How excited are you for the Odyssey on a scale [1:31:26] I see. [1:31:27] I'm excited. It's, I, it's, you know, it's, [1:31:31] It's a... [1:31:32] It's going to be a... [1:31:34] like an iconic character, [1:31:35] Nolan is one of the iconic guys currently working. You could argue that he's the best character.

[1:31:41] director currently working. Certainly the only one currently that would be allowed to make a film like this. And... [1:31:50] I mean, I'm all in considering that this has its roots in him. [1:31:55] Not getting to make Troy... [1:31:59] It's been gestating that long. I'm excited. [1:32:02] I'm excited. [1:32:04] I sat next to somebody you've both potted with over the years many times, Mally Rubin. [1:32:10] in the screening today and um [1:32:13] Let's just say she was digesting a lot. A popcorn or mythology? A lot of things in a wheelhouse. There's books. [1:32:23] There's this whole other level for this movie that if you want to go back and then also dive into... [1:32:29] I was going blind. I could barely remember anything from, you know, I read these books in high school. [1:32:35] So I was kind of re... [1:32:38] re-remembering a lot of the stuff that was in there. But I know there's an embargo. I saw people tweeting about it. I think you're allowed to say, like, I saw it and I liked it. But the, like, full review and plot points. I thought it was incredible. And most importantly... [1:32:52] My guy, Matt Damon. [1:32:55] You know, I still feel like he's alive in the Damon versus Leo thing. I know I'm like one of the only people holding on to it, but... [1:33:02] If we go best seven Matt Damon movies versus best seven DiCaprio, I feel like he's in the mix. This is a very exciting argument to have.

[1:33:12] It is a really interesting one. I just think his basketball reference page is better than people realize. I think I tried to make a Damon versus Cruz take case that you guys laughed me out of your off of a set for like during rewatchables. But Damon Leo is a good argument to make. [1:33:29] I remember my HBO show 10 years ago. [1:33:33] playing that one up right after the Martian. [1:33:35] Because Damon had momentum. But Leo's been steady. He's a little bit younger. [1:33:40] But Damon's career also, like, you go back to basically school ties is – [1:33:45] 92, 93 range. So he's been 35 years now banging out [1:33:50] watchable movies. With, [1:33:51] With Leo, I think you would have to... [1:33:55] say no Titanic. [1:33:57] We don't. [1:33:58] put Titanic in the mix. Because I just think with Titanic... [1:34:02] It takes Leo to a level that, [1:34:05] Matt Damon has... [1:34:07] Well, honestly... [1:34:09] Honestly, it might happen with The Odyssey. [1:34:11] I know Titanic was a billion dollar movie that won a bunch of awards. [1:34:18] I don't know if that's not happening with the Odyssey. Like, it's fucking sold out all through the summer in LA already. But, like, Titanic was the type of, like, cultural impact that, like, the Taliban had to ban it. Like, it was that level of movie. That is true. You know what I mean? [1:34:34] People going eight, nine times. To be fair, they were banning stuff left and right. But when they're like,

[1:34:42] No music, no makeup for women, but and also Titanic cannot watch that movie in the borders of Afghanistan, period. Like, I think that is a crazy, crazy, crazy impact. It's a. [1:34:56] It's a pretty awesome achievement. [1:34:57] I'm really happy for Damon. It is impeccably well cast. Okay. And people know this, I think, from the IMDb. Do you guys know who Charlize Theron plays in this movie? [1:35:08] I forget. I know that she's... [1:35:12] fairly important. I want to say it's Cersei, maybe? Oh, Cersei. She plays Calypso. Oh, Calypso. Okay. [1:35:19] Thank you. [1:35:20] And she's well cast. Oh! [1:35:23] Just going to say that. Also happy for my girl, Anne Hathaway. But yeah, no, it was... [1:35:29] It's really something. I'll be interested to see what the reaction is. It seems like everybody had that reaction. Like, holy shit. I'm excited for Bernthal. Just Bernthal. You want to know about the horse? [1:35:40] You didn't talk about the horse. Your dad wasn't that big of a deal. [1:35:46] I intentionally read nothing and knew nothing. I knew a couple of the people that were in, but there were a couple where I was like, and when I saw Berthal, I gasped when Mallory started laughing. And I was like, I had no idea. My guy, he's here. But those are the most fun kind of movies. Anyway, the Odyssey. What else are you looking for pop culture wise this summer? CR anything? Me? Oh, I can't wait for Resident Evil. The Zack Kreger movie. [1:36:10] follow up to weapons and it looks awesome.

[1:36:13] JC? Same. You know, love the video games. Me too. And the trailer knocked me out. [1:36:20] Thank you. [1:36:21] Any reality? Nothing? Are you out on reality now, Jason? No, I'm, well, I'll tell you my... [1:36:28] Most... [1:36:29] dirty reality secret is below deck. I watch it year round. Oh my God. My wife as well. My wife is like, like just, [1:36:37] just inhales it. What is it about below deck? I don't really understand it. It's a perfect [1:36:43] Reality procedural. [1:36:46] It's it does the same thing. [1:36:48] formula over the course of like two episodes, [1:36:52] And it just does it like on an assembly line. It's charter. [1:36:58] comes in. [1:36:59] There is Workplace Dynamics. [1:37:01] And then there is the cool down where they all go out to the club or whatever. But for me, the thing is, they're all... [1:37:10] truly working, [1:37:12] They're actually doing a crazy job out there on the high seas. And you can't beat the stakes in reality television of... [1:37:20] If this all goes wrong, somebody drowns. [1:37:24] Interesting. Has that ever happened on Below Deck? It's almost happened several times. [1:37:31] It's almost happened. [1:37:32] My wife really enjoys the different, um, [1:37:35] people that come in that, yeah, [1:37:38] that rent the boat, the different types of people they pick. Johnny Damon. [1:37:42] Oh, Johnny Damon, she was all excited about that, but she really likes the tipping at the end and the dynamics with that and whether the people, I just, I can never buy into it, Sierra. I got to say, this is the least amount of reality I've watched in a long time. Yeah, you might be aging out in a little bit. I'm also probably aging out. I think when the challenge just became a professional sporting event and stopped having people screaming at each other and hooking up in a closet. Yeah. Nobody's hooking up in a closet or a bathroom anywhere. I was like, I don't know.

[1:38:12] I think we covered everything. I think so. America's gone. [1:38:17] The Knicks are NBA champions. [1:38:19] The Celtics are in complete flux. A.J. Brown is on the... [1:38:23] on the Patriots. Heat 2's coming out. Just a lot of crazy shit's happening right now. JC, I will see you on Wait a Second in the next couple weeks. CR, I will see you for Watchables the next week. People can watch us do Ali today. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahal and Chris and Jack and everybody at Spotify. I'm going to be back one more time this week. Not sure when, so stay tuned for that. Thanks for watching on Netflix. [1:38:50] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE. [1:39:20] or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867. [1:39:28] This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? [1:39:39] You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists. So everything's working together toward your goals.

[1:39:46] Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner. [1:39:49] Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com. [1:39:58] Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better. Every plan, $15 a month, even unlimited. That's it. Happy ending. Zero tears. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.