The Giannis Never-Trade and a Mega-Mailbag With Zach Lowe, Plus Wyndham Clark’s Second U.S. Open Title With Joe House

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[01:42] Bill Simmons podcast. We are live on Netflix. [01:46] low and [01:48] Something happened and he just disappeared like two minutes before we went live. But that's fine. [01:52] I can carry the very top here because I want to tell you, we have a new rewatchable. We have two. [01:57] Coming this week. [01:58] We have From Hell Month still going. [02:01] Really strong. We have domestic disturbance coming on Monday. [02:04] And then the good son. [02:05] is going to be Thursday. And then the next Monday, [02:08] We've been doing Pacific Heights. So three more from hell movies. Then we'll get into a more. [02:13] Regular schedule after that. Check out all of our Ringer basketball podcasts, by the way, because we have the draft on Tuesday night. I'm going live. [02:22] on Netflix. Hopefully Zach's [02:24] um laptop will be working it's our computer and camera will be working at some point he will have a show i think on monday we're gonna have uh on my show on tuesday on netflix it's gonna be joe house because his team has the number one pick and that's the rule of house has the number one pick we're good and then uh jay kyle man will be joining us [02:43] as well. And now Zach Lowe, I think, is this working, Zach? How are we feeling? Are we live? Am I back? We're live. I just did my intro. Let's go. Oh, my God. Okay. My computer just died. It came back to life. I don't know what happened. I don't know what's going to happen, but I just, I popped into Netflix just like that. I'm live. Okay. You did. I thought the bug... [03:02] I thought the Bucks or the Miami Heat or Miami Heat media members might have sabotaged your feed. Oh, boy. Okay. Here we go. So we couldn't talk about the trade. We have... [03:09] The honest, [03:10] trade hostage crisis. What, day 305? Day 307? I don't know how long this has been going. We were kind of hoping it would happen this weekend. I think

[03:21] I think it's going to happen tomorrow, sadly. Not good for our podcast. Maybe not good for you, whatever week you had planned out. But I think it's going to happen tomorrow. [03:29] And I just am discounting 95% of everything I'm reading. So we're at the very top of this podcast where we talk Giannis quick. We'll talk our just knowing enough enough about the draft to be dangerous takes. [03:43] And then I have a mega mailbag that I'm going to bring you into. And then at the tail end, Joe House is going to tell us what happened in the U.S. Open. So the honest trade, are you surprised it has not happened yet? Are you tired of talking about it? Where are you? [03:54] I'm not surprised it hasn't happened yet. I totally understand both why Milwaukee wants to take this as far as possible and why other teams are perhaps a little frustrated with Milwaukee's communication style. I understand all of it. I understand every party involved. I kind of thought it would be done by now. They clearly want to do it before the draft. Their owner, Jimmy Haslam, came out and said, we'd like to do it before the draft if he's not going to extend. I thought it would happen before now. I still would lean to it happening before the draft like you. [04:24] build like I just... [04:25] It's just got to roll off your back. There's nothing you can do. Am I going to a World Cup game on Tuesday? Am I tentatively throwing out the first pitch at Citi Field tomorrow, weather permitting? Weather permitting. All those things are happening. There's just nothing I can do. I can't control these variables. I just got to roll with it. Just got to roll with it. Peace. Peace. Serenity now. Serenity now. It's all I can do. [04:46] Is this the highlight of the Mets season, you throwing out the first pitch? I can't think of any other highlights. I mean, the state of the rotation is such that you would not be the first one of my friends to joke that, hey, if I look good, they may have to throw me out there for a few innings. Just eat some innings for them.

[05:02] You could be like the Eddie Harrison Major League [05:05] The crafty over 40, um, junk, junk pitch. Throwing junk. Um, [05:09] So with the honest... [05:12] Honestly, my feeling has not changed for a week. I think they know what Miami's offer is. It can only be so far. [05:18] they're not putting BAM in it. So at that point, it's pretty easy to figure out everything that's in it. And they're just waiting on Boston to see if Boston is going to top the offer. Maybe they're trying to get them to add stuff to the offer that already happened. I still think [05:33] I would still bet on Boston. [05:35] And as we talked about last week, I'm still conflicted about that. I don't feel great about [05:40] the honest trade. There's been some stuff floating around in the last week that... [05:46] I don't want to discount, but I just don't believe. Like, I think Hero, if it ends up being Miami, I think Hero is appealing to Milwaukee. He's from Wisconsin. [05:55] I think that would be a piece they want. [05:57] Um, I don't, [05:59] Once we start getting into three-teamer, four-teamer stuff, I just become a little more suspicious. And the other piece is... [06:06] I think Kuzma... [06:08] is the Giannis tax for this trade for whoever gets him. [06:12] And I haven't seen that really anywhere in a real way. But for Miami, it would have to be Wiggins being in the trade and then Kuzma going back to Miami. He's an expiring deal. I think they just want to... [06:24] move off him. And then for the Celtics, I think that might be a piece of this. If it is going to be Giannis and Jalen as the principals, the Celtics have this trade exception, and then,

[06:34] And I think the honest tax would be, well, you have to also take Kuzma. So I wonder if that's a piece of this. Have you heard anything about that? It's a great call. I have not dug so deep as to get into the Kuzma sediment layer of this, but I'm not [06:48] It makes a lot of sense, particularly for Miami, because I think they would like – [06:54] to end up with Wiggins and Powell, who's an unrestricted free agent, on this theoretical Bam Giannis team, both of them, not just one of them, because they're going to be scrambling to fill out the team. They have lost Rozier as a salary matching tool, which makes it even more difficult to do that. And it's doable keeping both of them if it's just Giannis, if it's Giannis plus a tiny salary. But if it's Giannis plus another 20 million or whatever Kuzan is making, it becomes very, very hard. [07:24] is like if we do this and all our first round picks are out the door and Yaka Chunas is out the door and all our young guys are out the door, what is it going to amount to? You could argue like, what is the present state of the team? [07:35] going to amount to, but at least you have some optionality down the line for whoever the next star [07:41] that becomes available is, but like, you know, as Miami has seen a, you never know who it's going to be and B you may not get them. Like you didn't get Damian Lurie. You haven't got Kevin Durant. You may not get Giannis now. [07:51] Right. And then on top of it, you're getting a guy that hasn't, [07:54] made even the conference finals in five years. [07:57] who has had trouble staying healthy, who's 31, 32 years old, and you're banking that he's going to completely change your playoff destiny. So the more you put in the trade, the less likely that goes. But if Wiggins and Kuzma have to be the extra piece for a Miami trade,

[08:11] And now you don't have Hero, Ware, Hawkes, and Wiggins. You're just ruling all of those guys out. [08:18] And you're basically just, you have to bring back Norm Powell, you have Giannis, you have Bam. And then you're just kind of doing the Miami zombie thing, trying to revive careers all over the place. You're probably still in a better spot than you were at 43 and 39, losing a play-in game. [08:33] But I also don't think... [08:35] you're a title contender. So we'll see. Boston's a little different because I think [08:39] they could talk themselves into... [08:42] This Tatum-Jalen thing might have reached the end. [08:46] Jalen got a taste of being the guy. [08:48] And now we're resetting the team. We're going to be more inside outside. And hopefully we can ride Giannis for three years here. [08:55] Um, [08:56] I understand it. I don't agree with it. So, so... [09:01] How much, if you're, if you are Brad Stevens, [09:05] how much extra are you going to put in? Because you know they're just, they're asking for Derek White. I'm just making this up to be clear, but just like Derek White plus two first round picks. What about Jalen Brown plus two picks and a swap? Like what's your threshold of pain? I wouldn't do that at all. You're just going like one for one and we're done. That's it. Take it or leave it. Yeah, I'm not taking Giannis, but also getting rid of Derek White. Like part of the reason to get Giannis would be that you still have Derek White and he's like the perfect guy to play with Giannis. Agreed. [09:35] To me, it's like... [09:36] I would suck it up. [09:38] With Kuzma, [09:40] And if it's like Giannis plus the Kuzma trade exception...

[09:43] thing. [09:44] For Jalen. [09:47] I think that's a pretty fair trade. Jalen was one of the eight or nine best players in the league last year, and he's not even 30 years old yet. And then if you're Milwaukee – [09:56] with the way the new lottery rules are, [09:58] you're more competitive than you were, and you still have a chance to flip Jalen. I still... [10:04] I'm still rooting for this scenario with the Celtics. If they've decided that they actually have to move Jalen, I think there's other teams that I would rather look at than Giannis. [10:13] Like if, if the Clippers number five was on the table, um, if new Orleans with Murphy and Herb Jones and, um, [10:21] patching together a bunch of contracts and try to reset and have more flexibility. I'd [10:26] Would still prefer that over the Giannis... [10:29] It's not a Hail Mary, but it's a little bit of a Hail Mary. What's coming with the number five pick? Because you're going for the title or trying to win this coming season, right? So are you getting Kawhi in the number five pick? That seems like too much for the Clippers to ever do. What's coming with? I think it's Collins in the five and maybe one more thing. Collins is a free agent, isn't he? But can't you team option him and keep him so you can trade him? I thought you could. I think he's unrestricted. Is he unrestricted? He's unrestricted, yeah. All right. [10:59] But the Clippers have a ton of cap space, though, so I guess... [11:02] I mean, that'd be part of the deal, right? You could just... [11:05] you could do Jalen and the Five as the principals. Because the Clippers really only have Kawhi and Garland as their big contracts. [11:12] I just think the Clippers, look,

[11:14] Again, I'm not. [11:15] I can't sit here and claim that, oh, yeah, I've been on the phone with everybody with the Clippers and they're telling me exactly what their plans are. Anyone sort of posturing like that is lying to you. But I just think. [11:25] This this pick from Indiana is. [11:27] is such a gift from the basketball and the lottery gods and such a rare opportunity to [11:33] for a franchise that has not had any after the Shea, Kawhi, Paul George trade, [11:38] to not quite reset, but to at least get a blue chip young guy in the door. At least I have a shot at like, this guy could be on our team for 12 years and be really good. I just don't, [11:48] see them passing it up for like, hey, if we get... [11:51] Jalen Brown, Jalen plus Kawhi plus Garland, like we might be able to throw a couple punches at the Spurs and the Thunder and everyone else. I just don't see them doing that. That's just my gut, though. That's not reporting. That's just my gut. [12:02] I think you might be right. I was thinking of the Bogdanovich contract, not Collins, because Collins has the team. Bogdanovich is a team option for like 16. [12:10] Um, [12:11] But the Clippers are still way under the cap and could do stuff. But New Orleans would be the other one. [12:15] I don't know what to make of Atlanta anymore. I thought it was interesting today. They extended McCollum for one year for 21, which I thought was really smart. [12:23] They have the eighth pick. [12:24] The weirdest part of this draft is the fifth and sixth draft. [12:27] picks are both point guard picks and yet the teams that have those picks have point guards, which is one of the many things that make this complicated. If I had to bet, [12:35] I still think Boozer goes to Utah, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. But I still feel like I'm leaning Boozer versus... [12:43] rolling the dice with Peterson. Peterson goes three, Wilson goes four.

[12:48] I think the Quippers, if they stay at five, have to take – [12:50] Wadler. [12:52] I think Mikael Brown goes six. Acuff seven to Sacramento. And then Atlanta is the first one that I'm really on the edge of my seat for. I don't know what to make of them. [13:04] And it would seem like Fleming's makes a lot of sense. They could go nuts and take a center. [13:09] If I were them, I would take Brandon Burris. I just think he's the best player that's available at number eight. But do you feel like Atlanta is the pivot team? [13:18] Why would the Clippers not take Burry's? Is that too much of a reach at five? [13:24] Ah. [13:26] If I were them, I would take Burry's at five. But I don't feel like... [13:31] I feel like in the rankings... [13:33] he's probably a couple spots behind those other guys. I think he's pretty consensus eight, nine. Now they might not care and have their own rankings, but, [13:41] But I think for him, he's a much better bet. I love Burris. I feel the same way about him that I did about Castle two years ago. I think he's a guaranteed really good pro. The Hawks have eight and 23. And a ball handler makes a lot of sense for them because you saw, like, once Trey went out, they kind of cobbled together. [13:58] functional offense of screens and cuts in motion. Then as soon as they got McCollum, it was like, Oh, [14:04] a real high level skilled ball handler, [14:07] changes the dynamics of this team completely. They're really hard to guard. It's really hard to hide any bad defenders against them. They need a ball handler like Jalen Johnson, not quite a number one ball handler. Nikhil Alexander-Walker, same deal. So it'd make a lot of sense for them to take a swing,

[14:22] at one of those guys with that pick. It's also like an interesting first trade ship to like, are they going to cobble things together and try to get Trey Murphy the third or somebody like that? I don't know, but I agree they're in a very interesting spot. I have a follow-up. Well, by the way, on the Hawks, at 23 – [14:38] You have all these... [14:39] I think guards that have a chance to be really good. I just feel like one of them is going to fall. [14:44] And you might be able to get a Corey, the, the, [14:47] Point guard, he's like 6'1". He's a little Kemba Walker-y. Christian Anderson could be around there. [14:52] You just might be able to get one of those guys at 23. [14:56] and you get Burris at eight. There's like one version of him in the draft, like just an old school two-way, two guard, and then hope you get lucky with a point guard later. I have a Celtics question for you. [15:07] Yeah. You mentioned, has the Tatum-Brown thing run its course? [15:11] The other side of that coin is [15:15] The Celtics have been extremely quiet and extremely careful about this whole Giannis thing. It's all been sources say... [15:22] The Celtics are interested in Giannis. Sources say there have been talks, whatever. [15:27] The leak that says specifically... [15:30] Jalen Brown has been offered for Giannis has not really come out yet. It's just everyone making the very logical, no other way to do it. [15:38] deduction and then there was a brief like well could they do it without including jailer brown which i didn't buy it for a second i don't think there's any way to do it but my point is the celtics have been i think very careful because they know that [15:49] Having done this dance a little bit with Durant and Brooklyn, I'm

[15:52] that there's collateral damage to a guy who thinks – [15:57] he's been offered. [15:58] they can probably plausibly go to him now and be like, Hey man, like it was never out there that we explicitly offered you like, just ignore all that stuff. Do you think that, [16:07] That is too far gone. Like that collateral. Are you worried about that kind of collateral damage? If this doesn't happen. [16:14] And how does he how does Jalen Brown feel about it? Is there still a path forward? [16:19] I mean, I said a week and a half ago, I know they made an offer. [16:22] And they're, they're definitely involved in this and they're definitely the other team. Like there's no question. The bigger question to me is how much does Jalen Brown even care? Like, [16:33] My fear with all of this, and maybe this is part of the reason they're thinking about [16:38] not a blowing it up, but changing whatever they're doing is that, [16:41] he got a legitimate taste at being the guy last year and having his own team. And that's a real thing. And that's something that has submarined a lot of NBA teams over the course of history. And as is something that's submarined other facets of life. Like I joke, Lee was talking about the wire when, [16:57] Avon went to jail and Stringer Bell took over the business and [17:01] was kind of the guy running the thing. And then Avon came back and they, and that's the TV fictionalized version of it. [17:06] But when you have a taste and it's your team and you're the guy, you're the guy. [17:10] It's pretty tough to just be like, okay, [17:13] Here you go. I kept it warm for you. [17:15] And I think what's different than a couple of years ago is that, you know, if Jalen had his own team, I don't think he's shedding tears over that.

[17:25] I think he's since the season ended, [17:29] Uh. [17:32] He's just done a lot of small things. [17:35] that make you go... [17:37] Huh. [17:39] That was like two 90s song lyrics in a row. All the small things. I guess that's post-90s and things that make you go, hmm, all just sandwiched together. Nicely done. There was some. The Twitch? You're not enjoying the Twitch stream? Yeah. [17:53] I don't think the Twitch, the, the, this was the best season of my career. Um, [17:58] I don't like Tatum hasn't come on the Twitch. It's like all these little tiny things where, [18:03] I still don't have a lot of hardcore evidence that these guys are fired up to play basketball with each other for the next 10 years. [18:09] I would rather it worked out and they stayed together because I think that's the rarest thing you could have in sports. [18:13] I just am dubious that it will. But you've done, not to derail the mailbag, I'm sorry, but you've done a very smart thing, which is, [18:20] This is, there's so much Giannis mania in, [18:23] that this is being framed as Giannis or bust. And it doesn't have to be. You can canvas the league for Jalen Brown trades. However, I will say just scanning, and I remember doing this at the time, [18:36] Finding the one, if this is your priority, and I think it should be, [18:39] that keeps you at or near the top of the East with like a reasonable championship equity next season. [18:46] is not like the Clippers one that you proposed does not do that. In my opinion, it's a huge step back for the team. So like, I remember, I remember landing in places like Houston that, that have a lot of just stuff and picks that they can throw in. And I just,

[19:00] I'm struggling to remember sort of who else fits the bill is like, here's the Pelicans are the other one. That's why you have Murphy and Jones and all that. There just aren't that many who can throw back. [19:10] Here, here's some stuff that is different than Jalen Brown, but keeps you at a 58 to 60 win pace, which is what they've been at. [19:17] Well, the only thing with that Clippers one is you're resetting your salary in a pretty crazy way. [19:22] Because with the Clippers able to take on... [19:25] his money and you basically take that fifth pit back plus you have the trade exception you now you really have flexibility to do a bunch of different like i like what about like i remember thinking about like like and i don't think either dean i don't think cleveland would do this but like a jail and brown from mobley like that would be the kind of thing that i'm talking about where it's like here's another pathway that's not yannis but satisfies that makes us just as good now [19:48] As we are. And it's just hard to find. Those deals are really hard to make. [19:52] We have a fake trade in the mailbag. Oh, good. That's another one for this. But yeah, I mean, he's making the high 50s. [19:58] So any trade, unless you're getting a draft pick back and a bunch of flexibility, you're looking at another guy who's in that range and a team that's. [20:06] probably staring at it the same way. I guess the bigger thing for me is, [20:10] I think the Knicks have at least a two-year run here where they're going to be really hard to beat because of the team they've assembled, the team they've assembled, [20:18] all the guys at the right points of their career, and there's a real selflessness with this. The motto for them would be what happened with the 70s through 73 Knicks, where they won two titles, were able to stay together, or even like the 08 to 2012 Celtics. So you kind of know that's the team, that's the bar you have to beat. That's a team that feels like they can beat Boston. Or like the early 2000s Pistons, who only get one, but are in the deep conversation for a half decade, and probably should have gotten another one in there somewhere.

[20:48] And they have a really special guy, which that Pistons team did not have. That Pistons team was a totality. Brunson is... [20:54] Unlike anything that Pistons team has. Dismiss the Knicks repeat chance at your peril. That's all. This is a really, really good team. And if they're healthy, they're deep, they're smart. They know how to play. They're incredible problem solvers. Something magical happened to them in this playoff run that like maybe it completely sustains. Maybe it doesn't. But like, I think they're going to be. [21:13] A force for the, as long as they can keep the score together. [21:16] Yeah, and Brad, his press conference was so telling right after the draft for the Celtics. [21:21] where he was clearly like really, really publicly unhappy for the first time in a while, not just that they lost to a team. I think he thought they were better than, but that, [21:30] He just didn't know if the style worked anymore. And even if you go back, we have a great mailbag question coming up about that 04 Celtics team. [21:38] that team was still able to play more inside-outside than the team last year. That team last year ultimately was... [21:44] just threes and jump shots. And weirdly, Pritchard [21:48] as the only inside-outside guy. So I think I'm prepared for anything with them. I don't know what's going to happen. And I still feel like it's going to be on us. [21:59] And then I'm going to have to spend the summer talking to myself. [22:02] into it. Honestly, that is a really appealing part of it for me. I just want to witness you coming to grips with it and then going all the other way of like why this would be the perfect fit. I've loved Giannis all along. Best shape of his career. He's totally rested. I'll talk myself into it. And it's the same thing. Like I said last month about if Miami gets him,

[22:23] Wherever Giannis goes, the team, [22:25] And the content from that team is going to be way more fun, right? Last year, we were in this Giannis situation. [22:31] Really, where it was just like, this is just a wasted asset for us to watch and discuss. And wherever he goes... [22:36] It's going to be a lot more fun. The other thing I want to see with this draft... [22:41] The 11-12 range of Golden State picking right before OKC, [22:47] And I'm sure you've heard this too. [22:50] These teams now that [22:51] see it through the prism of [22:53] I'm tired of watching OKC just nail the draft. How would they be thinking about these guys and the spot I'm in? And there's a couple of classic OKC guys there. [23:02] in this range right after that top eight where Yaxl, [23:06] Morris Johnson. These are just guys that [23:09] OKC will pick and then you'll get texts from... [23:12] 20 teams being like, fuck, OKC did it again. [23:16] And I wonder if that's going to change how people see the draft with their own spot. [23:20] It's like even Atlanta at eight or the Warriors at 11. Like, I wonder what OKC would do here. [23:26] I will caution. I heard you say that with Legler a couple of days ago. [23:30] I will say that the Spurs had that kind of reaction maybe 10, 12 years ago where they would take a guy and be like, I remember vividly this happened with Kyle Anderson. Like, oh, of course, the Spurs steal Kyle Anderson. And then it turns out he's just like, whatever. Like, sometimes he's like, oh, of course, they draft this guy. Turned into like, of course, the Spurs drafted Josh Primo. What a steal he's going to be. Oh, yeah, that was not a steal. OK. So just, you know, you get carried away with it. You get carried away with it.

[23:56] All right. Aggregate that. Zach Lowe says Presti overrated. Oh, I know. Zach Lowe eviscerates Sam Presti. All right. [24:04] We're taking... [24:06] We're taking a quick break. Oh, good. [24:08] And then I have an awesome mega mailbag and Zach can recover from eviscerating Sam Preston right after this. [24:14] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Michelob Ultra. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. [24:27] The stakes... [24:28] are just a side. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of... [24:32] The FIFA World Cup 26 is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra. [24:39] from the pitch [24:40] To the poor. [24:41] Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com. [24:46] slash superior access slash [24:48] FIFA World Cup. [24:50] 2-6. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residence 21 plus begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends [25:01] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit www.mickeleobultra.com slash superioraccess.com. [25:09] slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [25:15] All right, mailbag time. All right. [25:17] Some really good ones. [25:18] This is from, I hope I pronounced this correctly, Pacho in Dusseldorf, Germany. [25:24] He threw you in this mailbag question. Okay.

[25:26] He said, I want to know how you and Zach think a tournament of the last eight champions would actually shake out. Here's how the seeding landed based on win percentage. [25:34] Number one is OKC, two Boston, three Lakers, four Toronto, five Knicks, six Nuggets, seven Warriors, and eight Bucs. [25:42] How does it shake out? So first round would be, [25:46] OKC 1 versus Bucks 8, Boston and Golden State, Denver and the Lakers, and Knicks – [25:53] Toronto. [25:55] So let's go through the 1.8. I have OKC over the Bucks in five. 2015, 25, 25. [26:02] OKC against that 21 Bucs team. I think the Thunder handled them. I didn't make specific games picks, but I took the Thunder. It's a Thunder in six. I'll give Giannis a couple games. Giannis Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, I'll give him a couple games for sure. [26:16] I think OKC was better. That Bucs team, God bless them. [26:19] Great team. They got a really nice Pat Connaughton playoff run. [26:23] Middleton was great. [26:25] I just think the OKC team was really good. [26:29] Celtics, the 24 version, going against the 22 Warriors. So they almost beat the 22 Warriors, [26:35] And that 2014, I think, was just better. The guys were older, more experienced. I have to sadly take the Celtics. [26:42] I think it's the Celtics. You throw Drew Holiday and Porzingis into the mix, and it's just the depth and versatility are a different animal than those Warriors could summon, I think. Yeah. But congrats. Listen, there's no losers. These are eight champions. We're not downing any of these. You're setting me up for some inflammatory. All of these are wonderful teams, great teams. Great teams.

[27:12] look like in the playoffs more than like regular season win totals and net ratings. Cause if we're going to do it that way, just pick the 25 thunder the whole way. If you're going to do just do it that way. Um, [27:21] And you're going to run into like debating the difficulty of their [27:25] playoff paths to the title. Like, and that's a common, it turns out that's like a common thing. You don't always get the 2011 Mavericks path where you just have to beat all the best teams. Like a lot of these teams in the moment, people said, well, they didn't have to play this team. They didn't have to play that team. It's actually pretty common. [27:41] Thank you. [27:42] Denver over the Lakers. So that's 23 Denver against the 20 Lakers. And that 20 Lakers team did have... [27:48] This is where it gets complicated because KCP is in both... [27:53] in both teams. [27:55] I don't know what we do with that. I didn't think about that. Double KCP. Caruso was on that Laker team as well. They had Rondo... [28:04] I, uh... [28:05] I just think Jokic had the Lakers number over the last few years there. And I would take Denver over the Lakers in six or seven would be my pick. I'm going nuggets in seven best player. [28:19] And the best version of that team, I think, that we've seen is the 23 Nuggets. We're going peak against peak, right? We're going like peak form, 23 Nuggets versus 20 Lakers. That 20 Lakers is a really good team. I have always been, Lakers fans, a proponent of like the bubble title counts just the same as all other titles. It's special in its own way. I'm not saying that. There's nothing about that. They had Danny Green, too. You forgot about Danny Green. They had a lot of good role players on that team. I just think that Denver team was pretty awesome, and I will take them in a long seven-game slog.

[28:49] I feel the same way. Plus, Jokic was on... [28:52] That 23 playoffs that Jokic had, [28:56] is one of the all-time heaters. I think he was 31, 14, and 11 or something. Shot 50% from three. Crazy. All right, last one's a fun one. [29:04] Knicks in Toronto... [29:06] And you have OG and Anobi on both teams, but we have to factor in the appendicitis for OG and Anobi. You do. So he's wiped out on the Toronto side, but playing for the next side. [29:15] And all due respect for Toronto, which I think was the prototype for the – [29:21] Every single guy on our team can create a shot for themselves. [29:24] which was really one of the first times we had seen that with a, with the title team. Kawhi was great that year, but I think the Knicks beat them. [29:31] How many games? Do you think it's a good series? I had Nixon's six. [29:34] Going into Toronto and winning. Going into the Air Canada Center? Oh, no, that would be they would be winning an MSG. Regardless, Nixon six. What'd you have? [29:44] I think this is a tougher one than I initially just circled Knicks because, A, my brain is dumb and this just happened. And so I'm overrating them in my head probably a little bit. [29:55] But they are just an awesome team. They solved all comers. They just had the highest point differential in the history of the playoffs. That Raptors, and our last memory of that Raptors team, is tainted by Durant injury, Clay injury, [30:08] Kawhi was kind of running out of gas toward the end of that series, and Van Vliet carried him over the finish line. Van Vliet, heat check. Young Siakam, young Ananobi who didn't play, but young Siakam was already really good. The Abaka-Gasol combo was really good. It's a really versatile, well-rounded two-way team. I'm going to give them a seven-game loss to the Knicks. I think they take the Knicks to the distance in that series, but I'm taking the Knicks.

[30:33] That sounded like somebody that's going to Toronto for a World Cup game in two days. Didn't want to be yelled at. Yeah, well, look... [30:39] Next, next, next. [30:41] Round is much better. [30:43] And much tougher. I'm not going to like what's going to happen in this room. We have OKC in the Knicks. [30:50] And we have Denver and the Celtics. And I think that's an easier one. I think Denver beats the Celtics. Jokic always beats the Celtics. [30:57] And I don't care how good that 24 Celtics team was. I don't think we're beating the 23 Nuggets, unfortunately. So I have them in six. The other one's a tough one. Who'd you have in the Denver series? That's like the dream series we didn't get, right? Like that whole season when Boston won the title, the dream was Denver – [31:14] Boston. The two regular season matchups were the most [31:18] amped up matchups of most hyped up matchups of the season. I remember vividly watching one on a plane and praying the wifi would stay strong enough for me to continue watching the game. Cause they didn't have live TV on this particular flight. Um, [31:30] I went back and forth. I'll take Denver in seven, just defaulting again to they have the best player. And that team was just humming like Aaron Gordon. It's like peak Aaron Gordon, peak Bruce Brown, peak, peak everybody involved pretty much. And so I will take Denver in seven. But I think that Celtics team was. [31:45] was awesome. [31:47] and solve some of its late game problems. [31:50] you know, whatever, yips or whatever they had. [31:53] No question. That would have been an awesome series. OKC over New York is an even tougher call. I went with OKC in seven. [32:02] Um, because all the dudes, they would have had to throw up Brunson.

[32:05] I think the big what if of these playoffs that we just had, [32:09] Is it OKC just beats... [32:12] San Antonio and seven. Do we feel much better about San Antonio than we did after five finals games? And then, [32:18] That OKC team was just, all my Knicks fan friends were like, [32:23] Thank God we didn't have to play OKC. That was a much tougher matchup for us. So I would go OKC in seven. [32:29] in that one, but I really waffled and I couldn't decide. [32:34] My heart wants to take the Knicks. [32:37] Yeah. [32:38] And I think the Knicks, again, their level of problem, they're a very difficult team to play against. They're an unusual team in a lot of respects with this six-foot-nothing guard who gets whatever he wants and a shooting five and all this wing versatility, wing size around them. I mean, what do you make of Oklahoma City needing seven to beat Denver with Michael Porter Jr. playing with one arm and Aaron Gordon playing with one leg and then seven to beat Indiana? Like, this is what I struggle with because, again, if you're just going to go on paper, [33:08] season plus combined resumes, it's Oklahoma City and it's not close. [33:12] But the playoff resumes are New York's run better, however you want to quantify it, was certainly more dominant, easier conference, albeit... [33:20] I think I might actually take the Knicks in seven to win this matchup over that specific Oklahoma City Thunder team. I think I might. I think something magical. Just because of the inexperience? It was a very good playoff run by Oklahoma City. Great championship run.

[33:36] I just think something crazy happened with the Knicks and they just found Nirvana and found Magic. So I'll just whatever. This is a fun extra. I'm taking the Knicks in seven. Forget it. Sorry. [33:46] It's a great one. [33:47] I, uh, [33:49] Here's why I took OKC. [33:51] They're amazing. There's no wrong answer. All the guys to throw at Brunson, which San Antonio had, but the difference is in the last five minutes, OKC had Shea, and San Antonio didn't have anybody, and that's why they kept losing those games. I'm having a little fun. [34:04] Finals, Denver I have over OKC. [34:07] So just because they came so close to beating OKC anyway, [34:12] And that 23 Denver team was way better. [34:14] So that one was an easier one for me. So you have Denver versus New York in your matchup. So who do you have? I went Denver in seven. It's crazy that we both ended with the 23 Nuggets who were pilloried for having two play-in teams in their playoff run. And how soft it was in playing Miami in the finals and all that. I think, you know, power ranking these, I think 23 Denver, 25 OKC, 26 Nick. The last four, to me, are stronger than the early parts. [34:44] Of the run. The last four are really, really good single season teams. Just awesome teams. Top to bottom. [34:51] Yeah, I think the 23 Nuggets were the best of the eight, so we agree. Okay. It's fake trade season for the next part of the mailbag. First one's from Mac. [34:59] He said, I have to say that you were early and so right about Harper. I'll take all. I noticed Dylan Harper was awesome compliments in the preseason, which was the single easiest thing to know.

[35:09] Um, [35:10] I know that Dallas is contractually obligated to have their best player be a white guy. [35:15] But hypothetically, okay. [35:17] Let's say you are the Spurs GM and Dallas calls offering flag for Harper. Do you say yes? What if the Wizards call and offer you the first pick for Harper? Harper is not getting traded for any pick in this draft. I've already litigated that. Flag for Harper is more interesting. Dallas obviously isn't trading flag. Nobody's trading anybody. [35:33] But I'm wondering what, from what we know now... [35:38] I still think Flag should go first, but I did waffle way more than I would have two months ago. [35:45] So the question is not who goes first in the draft. It's to the Spurs. Who says no to flag for Harper? Do the Spurs say yes or no? [35:53] I mean, it's actually a better trade for San Antonio because they already have a point card, right? [35:58] I think – I just think they say no anyway because what they just saw with Harper in the playoffs is a known commodity. They've gotten a year to know him within their walls. They know how he fits with Wembenyama. He's a more – [36:10] I it's a it's a more of a sea change to go to flag is the supersized point forward. You look, you can't lose with either of them. But I think they would probably be like, well, I think it's a double no. I think it's a double no. Yeah. The Mavs aren't in a hurry. The Mavs are saying no as well. For sure. They hang up faster. [36:27] Flag on that Spurs team would have been fascinating, like literally what they needed. [36:32] Not that Harper wasn't what they needed, but flagged next to Wemby would have been really fun. This one's a little more realistic, even though I don't think it happens, from Aaron in Oregon.

[36:39] Who says no? Austin Reeves for Jalen Durant, double sign and trade. [36:44] Lakers get their big for Luca to trick. It's a perfect fit next to Cade, avoids overpaying during. And then he adds also, [36:51] Is everyone sleeping on Dame freaking Lillard joining this Portland team that got a win in San Antonio? [36:57] So he's coming back. He just did the two part question that you do at the press conference. When you really get one question, Adam, two part for you. And they're just completely unrelated. It's like, Hey, what about expansion? B aspiration that finishing anytime soon. Thanks. I'll take it from here. Um, [37:12] Yeah, we are sleeping on Dame. I'll talk more about Portland later. What was the first part? I already forgot. This is a danger of a two-part question. Duren Reeves double sign and trade. I'm just going beef stew, Paul Reed, all in on those guys and finding a center down the line. Austin Reeves is a better player right now than Jalen Duren. I feel like his... [37:33] They need secondary creation around Cade. They more urgently need what regular season Jalen Durant was in terms of like rim running, all that stuff. So I'm just, that's too much. These are huge changes. I'm saying no, it's too much for me to contemplate as a Detroit Pistons. [37:49] I'm saying no as well for both teams. [37:52] I do think Detroit needs to get during somewhere between 30 and 34 to 5. [37:58] Seems doable to me. Yeah, I don't think he can't be a Max guy. This next one's fun. [38:03] From Jovo. [38:04] Clips trade fifth pick. [38:06] For Paolo Boncaro, [38:09] Quips already have Garland. Drafting a guard is redundant. Magic could choose Acuff to pair with Suggs and Franz and fix their luxury tax issues. What are your thoughts?

[38:18] It did. [38:19] Make me pause. As earlier in the podcast, I had a Jalen Brown for the five. You said that wasn't on the Boston timetable, which you're right. [38:28] This is a little more on the magic timetable. Pretty good trade. [38:31] That's a good one. Basically, it's a cuff and you save 35 million on the cap. And Ben Caro is still very young. So it's sort of a, although he's making a max salary, my whole thing about the Clippers and being just overjoyed to have a blue chip young guy kind of still applies. [38:47] Clippers got to think hard about that [38:50] got to think really hard about that. There is something a little depressing about pairing... [38:54] two of like [38:56] two guys who are leaving disappointing postseason teams, or I guess the Cavs are no longer a disappointing postseason team, but Garland and Ben Carroll feels like, Hey, we got, [39:06] We've got the discards from teams that just didn't do quite as much as didn't play quite as well the playoffs as we wanted. [39:13] That's a good one. I don't know if... [39:16] The film I've watched with the draft guys with the Clippers, I'm just saying I'm going to make the pick. I'm making a pick. There's enough guys that I would love to have on my team that I'm just going to make the pick. Would you trade the fifth pick for Mobley? [39:28] Thank you. [39:32] That one gets really interesting because that solves a lot of luxury tax shit for Cleveland, too. I probably – I think – that's hard. That's hard. As the Clippers? As the Clippers, I probably would. And I just think Mobley's a little bit more – [39:46] Is he better than Vancaro? I think he is a little bit better than Vancaro just because of what he can do defensively is like a total known A-plus commodity. And he's very young. I wouldn't do that trade if I was the Cavs. You would.

[39:58] I would not. You would not. [40:00] it's all guards on the fifth pick and I think I'd rather... Oh, I wasn't even thinking about it from their perspective. I don't think they're going to... For the Clips, I would do it. I don't think they're moving Mobley [40:10] almost for anyone right now. [40:13] So good. [40:14] They shouldn't. [40:15] Adam from Santan Valley, Arizona had a three-teamer where the Warriors got Anthony Davis and Klay Thompson. [40:22] Washington got Jimmy Butler and the 11th pick from Golden State. [40:26] And Dallas got Pods and Moses Moody. [40:29] in the trade exception from AD. The 11th is way too much for Anthony Davis. I don't think he has that kind of value. [40:36] I do feel like there's a next year's first from Golden State. [40:40] with the Butler expiring for Davis is like in the vicinity of what I think. And I don't think Davis wants to be in Washington and neither do you. [40:48] But I don't think he's worth the 11th pick with the injury history over the years and his age and his salary. The Warriors, you just got to think a little bit about tomorrow, too. And I think they've been pretty open about that. Yes, we want to win around Steph. Yes, Anthony Davis would help. You got to think a little bit about tomorrow. Why was Dallas in that trade? What was Dallas getting out of it? Just to get Klay Thompson back on Golden State, which I fully support. I think Adam was thick right. All right, this is the best one from Doug from Sleepy Hollow. [41:19] You discussed Chicago Memphis trades to get Peterson to Chicago with house. [41:23] But the ideal one is staring us in the face. [41:27] Number three for number four,

[41:29] And a sick new Hyatt in downtown Memphis. Oh, come on. [41:33] One of the weird subplots of the season, finding out NBA players hate Memphis because of the hotel. Well, the governor of Illinois is rich because his family owns Hyatt. [41:41] And he's currently taking heat from Illinois sports fans because the Bears are threatened to move to Indiana. With one move, everyone wins. [41:48] Bulls get Peterson, Memphis gets Wilson, and a luxury Hyatt in downtown Memphis. But that's not helping me as the Memphis Grizzlies. It's helping my opponents rest better and be happier when they come to my city. That's a great point. I want them to be unhappy. Yeah, so Memphis says no. They're like, this hotel thing's an advantage for us. The players are pissed. They don't sleep well. They can't get good room service. We like where we are with this. [42:14] Screw you. They hang up. Oh, this was the Jalen Brown trade they got. This is from Sean T., [42:21] Jalen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon. [42:26] Ooh. [42:28] That got an ooh out of me. [42:30] It's funny because Jalen Brown and Jamal Murray was the big Boston. Who are they going to take at three, 10 years ago in the 2016 draft to Jamal Murray was one of the guys people thought Boston was going to take. [42:41] Jalen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray, [42:44] in aaron gordon denver would save a little money on that one too they'd save a lot of money we're going to have to ignore that element of i think it's 81 million dollars coming back to the celtics and jalen is at 57 and hauser is at 67 for 81 68 yeah you could throw in one more to make that work potentially pretty good one

[43:05] Wow, you're really deliberating on this one. I like this one. [43:08] So this will give the Celtics Murray with Derek White, Pritchard off the bench, Aaron Gordon, Tatum. [43:16] you're still hurting at center a little bit. [43:19] But that would be it. I think I'm a no if I'm Boston. [43:24] Just because... [43:26] Oh, I thought it would be Denver that would be the no. I mean, it could be either, honestly. [43:31] Again, I have no prep for this, listeners. This is just being thrown at me blind. [43:35] That's what we love. The Gordon leg issues are really worrisome to me. And I just like like ninety five million dollars of Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon in 2029 makes me a little nervous if I'm the Celtics. And I care a little bit about like maybe cleaning up my books at some point, which is one of the things you've talked about with with Jalen. [43:55] It's a double no. I think the more realistic one would just be Jalen for Jamal Murray straight up with [44:01] Maybe some massaging from the Denver side. [44:04] Randy in Sacramento, [44:06] would like to propose the following King's special. [44:08] Oh, boy. Where everyone wins. [44:10] The Spurs received DeMantis Sabonis, [44:13] Hawks receive De'Aaron Fox, and the Kings get Reese to Shea, Kaminga, and the Spurs 20th pick, and maybe their pick swap back. I'll go way more simple than this. What if it's just Fox to the Hawks, Reese to Shea, and Kaminga to Sacramento, and Sabonis and Buddy Heald to San Antonio? [44:31] No picks, nothing else. That actually works on the trade machine. This person needs...

[44:35] assistance immediately. This is absolutely an insane trade. [44:40] um insane for who everybody involved so so the spurs are like hey we just made the finals and 160 whatever games bonus like how about we upend everything and try to pair so bonus with victor wambinyama that sounds amazing the rebounds the hawks are like hey we're a pretty good young team yeah we just re-signed cj mcconn for one year you know what sounds great four years and 220 million dollars a year in fox for a guy which is player of the year picked at number one and [45:10] And the Kings are getting what? They're getting Kaminga and Rishishay. Yeah, they have to opt in at Kaminga and they get Rishishay. That's it. That's all they get. That's actually not even – the Kings are not making out like bandits there for a guy who called this – a Sacramento presumably fan who called it the Kings special. [45:25] That one... [45:27] That one broke me a little bit. It broke my spirit. It broke my morale. I'm a little flustered by that one. Sorry, Randy. [45:33] And then the last one's from Ellis in New York, who says he loves the pot. I know the Nuggets have no plans to trade Jokic. Okay, let's go. I was waiting for this one. But could the Thunder offer something like Chet, J-Dub, and picks for Jokic and Aaron Gordon? What's the motherlode? [45:48] Um, how far could it go? It did. So I texted you and I was like, got this Yoke straight. They're not trading Yoke. You texted me. I just want to be clear. 55 minutes before the scheduled start time of this podcast. You just texted me. Hey, build some fair, realistic Yoke straight. Okay. They're not going to trade him, but I do think if they ever did, Utah would be the team because it's reasonably close to Denver. Is that who you had to? I have six teams. I said, that's

[46:18] 16. All I needed was one. I can't believe you had six. Ellis gave me Ellis gave you one, which is OKC is an obvious one. You pair Shea and Jokic and you just figure out the rest. [46:27] I wouldn't trade both Chet and J-Dub, but one of them. I wouldn't either, but Chet, 12, 17, Kaysen Wallace, and a couple others. Kaysen's got to be in it. Give me Sorber. They own the rights to multiple Denver first-round picks, so I get my picks back. There's a lot of stuff there. And Utah, I'm surprised you landed on Utah, too, because there's a Utah trade to be made. The problem is I really want to sign and trade Walker Kessler as part of that trade if I'm the Jazz. [46:57] in the sign-in trade because I don't... He's the one, if I'm getting Jokic... [47:01] So I have to make a three-team trade, and it gets a little complicated. Here's my question. In your Utah trade, was the number two pick involved? Yeah, 100,000%. Okay. [47:12] Yeah. It's a full blow it up for Utah. That was the only one. Yeah, I had... [47:17] Number two, Markkinen, all the other picks they have where they basically – and I had them keeping Kessler in the trade. [47:24] not just for the reason you mentioned, but I also kind of like the idea of Kessler and Jokic together, but, um, [47:30] But Utah is one of the few teams that could make a fuck you offer. [47:34] I think. And you have to figure you want Jokic to be happy and he kind of likes being on that side in the mountains and [47:40] Um, just, you don't have to say what the other offers were, but what were the other four teams you had? I want to, I want to say. [47:46] Oh, go. [47:47] All right, so first of all, here are the three different challenges for this, right?

[47:50] Whatever team we're seeing now with Giannis, whatever team gets Jokic has to be in position to win immediately. That's number one. Number two, um... [47:59] Their picks in this new lottery world have to have some upside for me as Denver, where it's like, OK, I'm not going to get the 25th pick every year. And number three, Jokic has to be willing to sign an extension. [48:10] So we talked about Utah. [48:12] we talked about, um, [48:13] Okay, see. [48:15] Houston. [48:16] So Shangun, Jabari Smith Jr., Nets pick, Suns pick, a bunch of swaps, Rockets pick. So I get bites at the apple from different teams who could bottom out in the right year. [48:26] Um, [48:27] Portland, [48:29] Donovan Klingin, Scoot Henderson, Jeremy Grant, all the Bucs picks, all the Blazers picks. Anything of interest there for you? [48:35] Um, [48:36] You get all the Milwaukee stuff. [48:39] I don't know if Portland has the headliner for that trade necessarily. No, Klingon plus Scoot is not as sexy as it might have been. No, the number two pick to me is a much more important headliner. Charlotte, LaMelo Ball or Brandon Miller, take your pick. [48:54] Number 14, number 18, Salon, a Mavs pick, a Heat pick, all the future Charlotte picks. [49:03] No. [49:04] If I'm trading Joker, I need something... [49:09] incredible back. The Lakers straight up for Luka Doncic. [49:15] *laughs* [49:16] Just because I thought you'd have a little fun with that one.

[49:23] Hold on. Let's talk this out. I keep LeBron Reeves. [49:27] And I get Jokic and we're going all in to win the title with that group. We're not going to have a lot of defense, but we already don't have enough. I have to throw in more Luka, though, more than Luka, right? I got to throw in a pick or two with that. Future something. [49:40] Anything? I don't know. I mean, that's pretty good. [49:43] Um, [49:44] Wyndham Clark just won the US Open. My guy. I've always said Wyndham Clark is my guy. [49:52] David Sherman said, one of my favorite takes you've ever had is the NBA should award larger or smaller trophies to the NBA champion, depending on how important and impressive the runner triumph is. What size would you give the Knicks after this year? Obviously, no one is getting a bigger trophy than the 2011 Mavs. [50:07] Blah, blah, blah. So I actually, that idea was for the MVP, not the NBA team. [50:12] Not the Lawrence O'Brien trophy. Because I feel like every championship is special. [50:19] I like that you just threw out the trophy's full name, not Delario, Brian. But Lawrence, I call him Lawrence. Ironically, probably the worst commissioner of the league's ever had. [50:30] Just overwhelming about evidence. [50:33] I think this is a better idea for the MVP because we have some incredible – [50:38] you know, like the Shaq 2000 or LeBron, [50:41] 2012 MVPs where it's just like these are the biggest 40 pound MVPs and then there's the other ones where like [50:49] - Karl Malone during the lockout was a great one. - That's like a three pounder. - I wanna tell people, both privately and publicly,

[50:57] Any chance you get to slander, Carl Malone, you're not passing it up. I feel great about it. I have text threads with Carl Malone's slander. It's just endless. I feel great about it. [51:05] I feel one of my least favorite non-Celtics ever. I wish he had had a cup of coffee with the Celtics at the end of his career. [51:13] So the trophies, if we gave them three, maybe three sizes only for how impressive the run was, [51:21] Um, [51:22] I still feel like the 2011 Mavs would be higher than this next title, but I still thought it was really impressive. It was a level two for me. It was level one, level two, level three. [51:32] being the highest. Three is the highest. And that's really just 2011 Mavs. I don't even know who else is on that. This is a solid level, too. The level is, are we combining difficulty... [51:44] memorability, [51:45] Yeah, the whole package. The whole thing. Yeah, the historical significance. The Knicks had... [51:51] a bunch of it, but I don't know the path. I don't know you could get them. I think this is a level three. I think the Knicks just had a level three. [51:59] And my case would be, [52:00] 16-3 in the playoffs, greatest point differential in the history of the playoffs. [52:05] Um, [52:06] Collision with Wembenyama, which we will always remember because the next face of the league and all of that entered a hero and left a villain in very simplistic terms. And first title in 53 years for the biggest market and one of the most historic franchises in the sport. I think it's a level three, despite the fact that you can nitpick the opposition. It's a level three. [52:24] You know what else? [52:25] You're right. [52:26] And you left out the greatest comeback in the history of the sport. One of the most iconic plays of all time. It's a level three. My apologies, Knicks fans. It's a level three title. This next email is really good. It's from Sean and Charlotte, who fancies himself as an amateur NBA historian.

[52:43] He said the next playoff run was 100% unbelievable. [52:46] I clocked your Shawshank Redemption reference in your June 14th podcast. [52:51] Was the Patriots 2001 Super Bowl like this for you? Do you actively remember thinking you didn't have to cringe for, [52:59] at that refrigerator pair, well, touchdown anymore the rest of your life. And he's right. But he said, seeing Patrick Ewing hugging Carl Towns was genuinely emotional. [53:08] People I don't have to think about anymore. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Hugh Hollins, Phil Jackson, Hakeem, Reggie Miller, Rick Smits, Pat Riley, PJ Brown, Scott Layden, Isaiah Thomas, Kurt Rambis, Jeff Hornacek, [53:20] David Fisdale, Trey Young, and Tyrese Halliburton. That was Sean and Charlotte. [53:24] And it's such a great point. [53:26] When you win a title, [53:27] All of these horrible skeletons you have in your poltergeist pool, [53:32] just vanished into dust. Why did he include Hugh Hollins? [53:35] Hugh Hollins. That was the, the, that was a phantom foul in the Knicks favor. Was it not? I know, but then it led to them making the final. So maybe he sees Hugh Hollins and it led to more pain. I don't know why he included him. [53:47] Okay. [53:49] But it's a great point because I remember when the Red Sox won in 04, and [53:53] And the Aaron Boone game had happened the year before. Remember when the Yankees won in extra innings? I remember exactly where I was. Yeah. [54:00] And that was going to haunt me the rest of my life. And then the Red Sox beat the Yankees the next year. And all of a sudden that Aaron Boone homer, [54:06] Nothing means nothing to me anymore. She's dead. And that's what happens when you win a title is all the, all the skeletons just vanish.

[54:14] I felt terrible. I remember exactly where I was in that game. I was a neutral party in as much as – I was not a neutral party. I was a Mets fan growing up, but my dad is a Red Sox fan, so I was cheering for the Red Sox. [54:26] I was at the, I think it was called the lion's head on the upper west side slash morning side heights. [54:31] And it was a mixed crowd, half Yankees fans, half Red Sox fans, rowdy. [54:37] I just remember RIP feeling the absolute worst for Tim Wakefield, who just had made such a great career out of being a knuckleballer, was an Ironman, an innings eater, beloved member of that team. And just watching him walk off the mound, I said, man, this – [54:52] Anybody, I would have felt less bad if it had almost been anybody on the Red Sox but him that gave up that home run. [54:59] So beloved that none of us held it against him that he gave up the season-ending homer. We all loved Tim Wakefield. It wasn't like a Calvin Schiraldi, Bob Stanley thing. And then a year later, he became one of the playoff heroes. Yeah, but that is a great part of winning that title. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [55:19] Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. [55:29] vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

[55:59] flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. [56:13] This episode is brought to you by Holiday Inn by IHG. If I'm ever traveling for work, [56:18] Where I stay is so important. [56:21] I actually really care about this because sometimes I even have to do a podcast wherever I'm staying. [56:25] Um, in general, I don't go on the road that much, but when I go on the road, I'm, I'm, [56:30] I like to be in a nice hotel with a nice room. I'm spoiled. [56:33] If you sound like me, [56:35] Check out Holiday Inn. [56:37] It has a whole new energy, especially... [56:39] for business travelers. You'll see it everywhere from refresh rooms to reimagined social spaces, [56:45] And dining done right. [56:46] with new drinks. [56:48] and dishes. And for business, there are flexible spaces that work for the way [56:52] You were. [56:53] It's a new day. [56:55] and a new stay. [56:56] Book now. [56:57] at HolidayInn.com. [56:59] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the FIFA World Cup 26. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. The stakes are just this high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra, from the pitch to the poor, superior is worth playing

[57:29] World Cup 2-6. [57:32] Michelob Ultra of FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access. [57:35] No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends. [57:41] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit www.mickelobalcher.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [57:54] Jeff from New York. Now it's going to get a little dark. [57:56] With the Knicks looking the best they've been in completing owning the city with this title. It's officially over for the Brooklyn Nets. [58:04] They are a zombie franchise playing in a gentrified mall. [58:08] Why not move the Nets to Las Vegas, buy out Robert Pera, move the Grizzlies to Seattle, and let the new ownership groups pay a massive relocation entry fee to the other 30 owners instead of expansion? [58:20] You still get a lot of money. Seattle gets Sonic back. Vegas gets a roster. We don't have to watch 31 expansion teams. Who says no? [58:29] I do wonder, do this, did the size you think have like a secret meeting being like, is this ever going to work here? What do we do? I mean, I think, I think. [58:39] This is not even a I mean, the relocation thing is a little bit crazy, but this whole like existential crisis of the Brooklyn Nets as a franchise is a real thing, because if you did like ancillary winners and losers of the finals and the playoffs and the next title run, the Nets are near the top of the list because this just underlined. [58:59] irrelevant is too strong of a word.

[59:01] But New York is a multi-team town for every sport seemingly except New York. [59:06] NBA basketball and I guess WNBA basketball because of the Liberty who decides also on our like a phenomenal fan experience and a great team. [59:16] It's just like... [59:18] I found myself imagining... [59:21] What would a Nets parade do? [59:23] look like if if they had won during the durant it would not have been like that it would not have felt like that it would have been 20 to 10 percent like that and i i and why i find it interesting is because obviously the nets have been kind of uh tanking since that team broke up and failed [59:41] The lottery gods have not been kind to them. They were not kind to them again. They're picking sixth on Tuesday. They have just drafted a bunch of point guards. That's a point guard spot. [59:50] Um, [59:51] I just wonder sort of how... [59:54] aggressive, [59:55] the size want to be. I'm like, Hey, we got it. Like we, this is embarrassing. Like we got to put something together that creates a little buzz. And I'm not sure how we do that. Like, do we want to go out and get this guy? That guy just, I'm interested to see how they respond because I do think the Knicks winning, um, [1:00:10] And the outpouring of emotion from the entirety of New York City, [1:00:14] is like a meaningful material change to like what the Brooklyn Nets mean to the NBA. I really do. I'm sorry to Nets fans. [1:00:22] By the way, I was lying underneath for decades. [1:00:26] The opportunity with the Nets was that the Knicks run had been so awful for 20 years. Could you steal some Knicks fans based on how poorly run and weird? Durant and Kyrie were earmarked for the Knicks and they went to the Nets and that whole thing. And then they got Harden and we fucked ad nauseum about that.

[1:00:44] Thank you. [1:00:44] I actually watched the foot on the line three from Durant. It's like mass chaos in Barclays. That has to be the loudest and crazy. When he makes it and actually goes in and the fans thought they win. So there was some energy there. And if you're this size, you have to think like, okay, well, [1:00:58] go back and watch some of those games. It wasn't nothing. No, it wasn't nothing. [1:01:03] I honestly feel the same way about the Clippers. I just think [1:01:07] LA's a Laker town. [1:01:09] There's very few Clipper fans. And I don't really fully understand why Ballmer just want to move to Seattle. [1:01:14] and just be like, you know what, I tried. Obviously he can't now because he just built this into a dome and he's just kind of all in. [1:01:20] But there's just a couple of teams. It's the same reason why we don't have two teams in Chicago. [1:01:25] Um, [1:01:26] The NBA makes way more sense [1:01:29] and works better. [1:01:30] I wouldn't, Memphis wouldn't be the team I move. I would move New Orleans if I had to pick. [1:01:35] a team to move. That would be the one. We've never seen professional basketball succeed ever in New Orleans, and it's not the fault of the fans, but it's a small market and a team that's run horribly. [1:01:46] And if you were just going to say relocation, [1:01:48] Nets somewhere and [1:01:50] and the Pelicans somewhere, and we don't have expansion. That makes more sense to me. This is maybe obvious, but here's the other thing that happened with this next title run. [1:02:00] an entire group of young fans in Brooklyn, in Queens, in every borough, in every area of New York, they're now Knicks fans forever. You've lost an entire generation. Even some fans who maybe flirted with being a Nets fan,

[1:02:15] have now pivoted to being Knicks fans. [1:02:18] I watched it happen in Boston after I left with the Bruins because the Bruins, the owner and some of the stuff that the Bruins really like faded and became like just the hardcore Bruins fans and nobody else. And then this new Bruins group came in and completely rejuvenated the city on the Bruins. And the same thing happened with the Patriots. And. [1:02:36] All of a sudden, you had all these people who were under 25, under 30 that just loved those teams that might not have been there. And the same thing's going to happen the next. All right. You had no prep for this question. Okay, great. From Joshua. [1:02:48] I was thinking about all the sets of NBA brothers. All-Star weekend should capitalize by creating a brothers 2-on-2 tournament. What would that look like? [1:02:56] I'll give you the eight, uh, [1:02:58] Eight brother teams. The Thompson's? [1:03:01] Dylan and Ron Harper, Giannis and Pick a Brother. [1:03:04] Franz and Mo Wagner, Jalen and Coda Williams, Aaron and Drew Holiday, [1:03:09] Kaysen and Keaton Wallace and, uh, I'm sorry, Wallace and, uh, Steph and Seth Curry. [1:03:16] Um, [1:03:17] So it basically comes down to, [1:03:20] I would say the Thompson twins versus the Harper's. [1:03:23] in the finals would be my guess. [1:03:25] Unless you just think Giannis could one man it. [1:03:28] I really would be curious of who Giannis would pick. Wouldn't this tournament be amazing, though? First of all, anything is better than the Taco Bell Poole and Weed or Taco Bell Skills Challenge. Sprite presented by Sprite. Yeah. [1:03:43] I think Giannis would try to pick all of his brothers and just sort of like sub them in and out. And I think the league would have to make him pick. No, you have to pick one of them, only one. And you have to snub the others and create family drama that will last generations. You have to do it. I think the Thompsons find a way to bully and defend their way into beating the Harpers and everybody else. And they would be my pick. But Dylan Harper is Dylan Harper and Ron Harper Jr. Game seven starter. Ron Harper Jr. is a nice team. Yeah. It's a playoff experience for both.

[1:04:13] Thompson's probably a rock fight with the Thompson's, but, but maybe, uh, [1:04:19] I don't know. I'd have them in the finals, Thompson Twins, minus 140 over the Harper's. Imagine trying to score on those guys two-on-two. My God, what a... [1:04:28] The brother tournament. I love it. [1:04:30] Um, [1:04:31] This is from Stutz. He says, has the Luka Brunson Mavs team overtaken... [1:04:38] The Hart and Katie Westbrook OKC team as the biggest what if we kept this team together team of the 21st century. [1:04:46] Um, [1:04:46] In retrospect, none of those OKC guys proved they could will a team to a championship single-handedly. [1:04:51] Brunson already did it. Maybe Luke could do it someday. And then he says, time is luck. [1:04:56] Stutz from Charlotte. That's a reference to... [1:04:59] to Miami Vice the movie. [1:05:01] Time is luck. Big theme. Heat too. Michael Mann. [1:05:06] So the only other one... [1:05:09] 2022. [1:05:11] The only other one I would say is the what if we kept the team together, but it's not this century was the 95 Magic. [1:05:17] But I do think those two are in the finals. [1:05:20] The Brunson thing, in a lot of ways, was even worse than the Harden. [1:05:25] Um, [1:05:26] The hardened trade? [1:05:27] which we hated. And I think we did... [1:05:30] Multiple pieces of podcast. It's the first year we're working together. It single-handedly made Grantland's MBA coverage profitable and workable for like two years. It's great. We loved it. We loved getting content out of the heart and shake because it was so stupid. [1:05:42] The Brunson thing was worse because it was four for 55. And if you remember that last season,

[1:05:49] even though they said we weren't talking four for 55 during the season, Rick Brunson did go to Dallas and say, [1:05:56] It was like in January of that last season, we'll do the four for 55. And Dallas is like, we don't know. [1:06:02] I still don't understand it. It was inexplicable as it was happening. Well, it was for trade purposes, right? Like, that was why. If they extended him, they couldn't trade him at that deadline in case something big came up for Luka. And it turned out that something big was on your team. Like, the guy that just won finals MVP and scored 45 points in an all-time great closeout performance. [1:06:21] So what do you think is a bigger, what if we kept this team together team? It's probably still OKC because of the sheer totality of the guys. I think this is, to pick Dallas is a little bit of a prisoner of the moment take because it was just, we, like, [1:06:36] Luca and Brunson clearly could have been special together, but one was still coming off the bench for the most part. And yeah, those three guys together, you know, [1:06:44] all of whom have won MVPs in the regular season is just so iconic and had like, was we had, we, we saw proof of concept. They make the finals as like, [1:06:55] in the roles that they were probably going to have or Harden was going to start eventually. And then poof, it was gone so dramatically and so quickly. [1:07:03] And they're all such iconic players for all different reasons. And I still think that's the one. The other thing Harden would have bought them was... [1:07:11] back up [1:07:12] star power when either guy got hurt. [1:07:14] which is what happened the next year in 2013 when Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs. And then in, I think, 2015 with Durant. Everybody had a year from hell with injuries. He also...

[1:07:24] That four for 64, remember he goes to Houston, they immediately give him an even bigger contract than that. [1:07:30] Four for 64 for Harden was like a bargain where the league was going post-lockout. So, yeah. I remember everything. I remember Harden's first game. I believe it was against the Detroit Pistons as a Rocket. And it was immediately like, oh, my God. [1:07:43] God, this guy's going to actually do this game in and game out. Holy smokes. Sid McCollum in Salem, Oregon. [1:07:51] He said, I was discussing me being the NBA commissioner and naming House as my deputy commissioner just so he could announce the second round picks. It's a joke. I made a month ago. And he said, with House's affinity for food and drinks, my mind went to sponsorship opportunities. [1:08:08] For each pick, house comes out with a different food or drink option for different sponsors and league partners. [1:08:13] and says, Arby's Steak Bites brings us the 31st pick, and with that, the Knicks select blank, [1:08:19] I'm not going to be the NBA commissioner. I still feel like House could do the second round and they could – [1:08:25] they could have food sponsors for each pick. I think he would do better than Mark Tatum, honestly. I think it's a great idea. I think he could be eating when he walks out on stage. Like, I think it works. I think a different surprise second round announcer every year is a great gimmick. You just got to keep it under wraps and just, here comes a smoke machine. The NFL does it. Yeah, I saw they had different people coming out making different announcements. But just one guy could be anyone. It could be a music artist. It could be Joe House. It could be you.

[1:08:55] It could be anybody. [1:08:57] I'm available. [1:08:59] The more tough to pronounce names, the better for you. [1:09:02] Kobe from Oakland, now in Vancouver, says... [1:09:06] Harper quickly emerges as a prodigy and potential great, but foxes it his way. [1:09:10] what similar MBA situations from the past [1:09:14] can help us predict future outcomes. And he said the first one that came to mind for him was Curry-Ellis. [1:09:20] where it was the two of them together. Now that team had never won anything. This team made the finals. So I came up with four and then I came up with the winner. And I'll prep you for this. No. There was a Cedric Maxwell, Kevin McHale situation where McHale eventually took over, but the, [1:09:33] But it was kind of the way it was going to go anyway. So I don't think that counts. That was pretty seamless, the transition. [1:09:39] There was a James Worthy, Jamal Wilkes situation on those Laker teams, but that was also one guy was getting older. One guy was about to take over. I don't think that counts. There was a Jamal Wilkes, Rick Barry, mid-70s Warriors situation. [1:09:53] That Jamal Wilkes solved by signing with the Lakers is a free agent, and we never found out. [1:09:58] And then there was a Norm Nixon, Magic Johnson situation. That was the one I thought you were going to start with. Where they traded Norm Nixon, got the number one pick from the Clippers. They took Byron Scott. Similar to the Jalen Brown trades we were talking earlier. I don't have that as my answer either because that Laker team won a title. [1:10:15] The answer is Adrian Dantley and Dennis Rodman. [1:10:18] in the late 80s Pistons when they traded Dantley [1:10:22] because Rodman had to play more. And that was the whole point of the trade.

[1:10:25] They had this absolute [1:10:28] One of a kind rebounding defense force that just needed more minutes and Dantley wasn't ready to play less. And they solved it by trading for Aguirre, who was... [1:10:38] uh Isaiah's buddy I was gonna say that's a whole that's all Chicago connection right between Mark Dwyer and Isaiah they won two titles but that's a really good parallel to this because Adrian Danley [1:10:49] A little bit older. The question for me with Fox, because there's some interesting stats about [1:10:53] Didn't finish at the rim as much this season. Not as fast. Like he was probably the fastest or one of the fastest guys in the league. Didn't seem as fast. So is there wear and tear? Is he getting older or was he just hurt this year? Did you land on an answer for that? I think it's probably a little bit of both. I mean, that level of speed and athleticism doesn't last forever. And then you throw in some playoffs, some ill time. He started the year coming back from, well, it was some sort of leg injury, hamstring or a shin or something, or calf rather or something, and then finished it with a high ankle sprain. [1:11:23] that's life in the NBA. How many guys you're not getting through a hundred games, uh, [1:11:28] just like, oh, I was just healthy and energetic the entire year. That's just not realistic. And I just think, [1:11:35] You can throw all the fake Fox trades you want out right now. I don't think any team is trading for him without another season of him kind of rehabbing his game and his trade value a little bit. I don't see any realistic trade this offseason. [1:11:47] So you think he's a top five when Waz and House and I did the worst contracts draft? He's top five for you now? [1:11:53] 221 for four years. It's, I mean, it's just, it's a huge number and people are already like, well, is he the third best guard on his team? And he's a very, very good player. But if you're having that conversation and that number hasn't even kicked in yet, like it's probably in the top five.

[1:12:10] It's a gulp and a sigh when you hear the numbers. [1:12:13] It's like, [1:12:13] Oof. [1:12:16] Steve from Tobaccoville, North Carolina. Sure. [1:12:20] He thinks we should have a playoffs participation trophy. [1:12:24] Shout out to Vince Goodwill. [1:12:25] which goes to Fitz is a nice guy, which goes to the team who lost to the team, who lost to the team, who lost to the team, who lost in the finals. [1:12:38] So he said, you're going to have to. [1:12:41] Well, I'll walk you through it. The 26th trophy, our winner would have been the Houston Rockets. [1:12:45] They lost to the Lakers, who lost to the Thunder, who lost to the Spurs, who lost to the Knicks. [1:12:50] This trophy reminds the team's fan base that, wow, they made the playoffs. They weren't anywhere close. Your thoughts. I kind of like this. It has to be a first-round loser. It's a first-round loser. It's a first-round loser who loses to the team that lost to the team three times in a row. [1:13:05] Well, it's not dissimilar to the thing you hear from fans sometimes. Our team loses in the second round and it's a crushing disappointment. We were the higher seed or whatever it is. But the team we end up losing to ends up winning the titles. I kind of feel better about it. [1:13:19] My second round loss, it's a cousin of that. So the Rockets... [1:13:24] The turnovers at the end of what was it? Game two of that series. You're disqualified from all of the awards. I don't want any of the awards. Maybe it's not an award. Maybe it's. [1:13:33] Maybe it's like a [1:13:35] Like a voodoo doll or something. Did we ever figure out what, speaking of which, did we ever figure out what Missoula did with the Coach of the Year trophy? Do we know that it's around somewhere? Oh, my God. I look at eBay every day. I'm ready to bid on it on eBay.

[1:13:46] it's definitely in his garage [1:13:49] Robbie wants to know if Jalen Brunson was actually the best free agent signing of all time and says, I find this hard to believe. You do, Robbie. [1:13:58] Well, [1:13:59] I have a couple that I think were bigger. [1:14:01] I think Shaq to the Lakers in 96, eight years, three rings, four finals, one MVP. That's just a bigger signing than Brunson. Sorry. [1:14:09] LeBron and Bosch. [1:14:11] Durant to Golden State, that's two titles. [1:14:14] LeBron back to Cleveland in 14 and then bringing Cleveland a title, I think has to be dead even with Brunson to the Knicks. [1:14:20] So I would have it, [1:14:21] Tied for fourth. [1:14:23] I think part of the reason why people would make the argument that it should be higher, and I'm not sure that it is. The Shaq one is a great call and obviously doomed Orlando forever and ever, and there's all sorts of controversy about who offered what and when and what went wrong and all that. [1:14:38] It's the only one of those that's not a Max, right? Like Brunson is not a Max. And you kind of have to piggyback on top of it, the extension that wasn't a Max that has allowed them to sort of wiggle around under the second apron for a little while here. [1:14:51] That's going to be Pablo's next five parts here. He's a Knicks fan. I guess he can't do it. [1:14:56] the J when taking less. I'm still dubious. I don't think there's any secrets there. He knew exactly what he was doing. He trusts that he's going to be taken care of on the back end because he knows all these people. They're his family and he wants to win and it helped them win. I don't think there's any like [1:15:11] I think it's a unique one-of-one situation that is unreplicable.

[1:15:17] A couple other ones. Gus Williams to Seattle. That led to a title. Jamal Wilkes to the Lakers. [1:15:23] Chauncey Billups to Detroit. [1:15:25] round of Miami, the shot, [1:15:28] Robert Hort to San Antonio in 2003. [1:15:31] And then Nash to Phoenix was a great one. I think if the question is, what's the savviest free agent of all time, signing of all time? [1:15:38] I think Bronson might win. [1:15:40] where they went higher than a lot of people thought. [1:15:43] Um, [1:15:44] it was not a well-received signing, right? It was... [1:15:48] Four for 106 from a team that wouldn't pay him four for 55. [1:15:53] And the way it worked out. A couple other random ones. Rashard Lewis and Carlos Boozer. Both really good ones. Didn't leave the titles. Rashard Lewis led to a finals. But okay. I'm really excited for this next question. We're almost done, by the way. [1:16:06] James. [1:16:07] James Phelps. Yeah. [1:16:09] Have you been watching the World Cup, Sacklow? [1:16:12] I don't want to talk about the World Cup, but yeah, I have been watching some of it. [1:16:15] Thank you. [1:16:16] He likes, James Phelps likes that in soccer, they have specific jersey numbers for certain positions. [1:16:22] Attacking mid number 10, striker nine. [1:16:25] Defensive stopper, usually six. So what would you do for basketball and should we do it? [1:16:30] So it's a two-part question. [1:16:32] What would the numbers be? [1:16:34] Because he said like shooting guard 23. [1:16:37] Small forward, 33. [1:16:40] And would you like it more if the best players on teams wore the numbers that the best players wear like in soccer?

[1:16:48] I got to say, I did... [1:16:49] thought experimented out and I kind of enjoyed it. I can't believe you, I can see you doing this. I can see you, you put out a pad and paper, [1:16:57] And you started, you took this sometime in your life. [1:17:01] that could otherwise have been spent with your wife or children was spent on this. The mailbag you have to take to the end with all questions. 23 shooting guard. [1:17:11] 21 power forward in honor of Duncan. [1:17:14] Okay? [1:17:15] Six for center. [1:17:18] For Bill Russell? [1:17:20] Sure. [1:17:20] 33 small forward for bird and then one or 32 for point guard. I would vote for 32 because of magic. [1:17:27] The thinking is, [1:17:29] the best guys ever would all get the numbers. [1:17:33] But I do like... [1:17:34] I do like the concept of like if San Antonio right now, it's like – [1:17:39] Harper Fox is wearing 32. Should Harper have it? [1:17:43] It's the point guard number. [1:17:45] Yeah, okay. [1:17:46] and when he would wear six in this when he would wear six the art this is particularly artful what you're doing because lebron is not represented except he is he's 23 six and 23 both so 23 in soccer 10 is like the number i know that much that's the best guys luca modric so in this we have 23 which is shooting guard but it's also like lebron basically could have played any position it's not like you can pigeonhole him so 23 is like the number and that's [1:18:13] you know, like Orlando, Palo wanted 23, but Franz thinks he should have it. I think it opens up for a lot of drama. You're just creating trade rumors. You're just creating trade rumors. Whose team is it? Your whole, your team is being perhaps. Tatum's out for the year. Jalen wears, Jalen wears the 33. 33.

[1:18:31] Yeah, I do like this, though. I think I've been... [1:18:35] my mind immediately went to... [1:18:38] Jay Crowder can't be 99. We were just, we were censoring individual expression like this. I mean, like, you know, I like numbers. I like being able to pick my number. [1:18:46] Thank you. [1:18:47] Ethan from Cleveland says, when Giannis forces a trade, it will be the second time this summer a team owned by Jimmy Haslam has traded a generational talent. He screwed up the Browns and Bucks so badly his teams are forced to trade both Garrett and Giannis in the same offseason. Miles Garrett. [1:19:02] Um, [1:19:03] Does this move him toward the top of the list of one of the worst owners in recent sports history? I mean, just his Browns work alone has done that. I can't really hang the buck stuff on him as much. [1:19:14] Because when he got there, it was kind of... [1:19:17] That was one of the reasons, um, [1:19:19] that Lasbree sold in the first place because it was like, I'm going to get up from this blackjack table right now because they just changed dealers on me and he just got out. [1:19:29] With that said, it is pretty crazy that he presides over those two teams that just traded their two best franchise guys. They are one of the two teams... [1:19:37] Along with Phoenix. [1:19:39] that I have to remind myself when I go on SpowTrack, I got to scroll down a little further to the dead money section to get their true cap numbers. Like, oh, my God, Bradley Beal, what are you doing here? Damian Lillard, oh, my God. 22 a year for nothing. I did the Suns cap sheet earlier today because of their Gillespie and Jordan Goodwin deals. I was like, oh, they're in pretty good shape. And I scrolled. Ah!

[1:20:03] Yeah. Tax. [1:20:04] Dead money sounds like a movie we could rent on Roku. [1:20:10] Moses says, my question regarding Darren Peterson, why would anyone draft this guy in the top three? [1:20:16] It's not often we see a guy with this many red flags pan out. [1:20:20] I really think he's going to be a bust. I would gamble on my four, but I would much rather have the other three. Thanks. Love the podcast. What a, what a bus. So he's going to, he's a bust and he's like, I'll take him at four. [1:20:30] If you're a bus, just go all the way. If he's a bus, don't take him, Moses. Moses was all over the place. I do think Peterson has enough red flags that, [1:20:40] The moment of truth, I'd be a little nervous when these other three guys, I think, are all going to be really, really, really awesome. You better really be sold on... [1:20:48] the reasons Peterson had the cramping stuff and some of the other stuff happened last year. I don't know. Where did you land on him? I mean, when you look at the YouTube clips, it's out of control. [1:20:56] He looks awesome. I think the upside... [1:21:00] I think he has scary, scary upside. [1:21:03] I would take him with one of the first two picks just because I've heard all of the teams have seen every bit of medical data that they would want to see. [1:21:10] And have come away feeling like, okay, like there's nothing here that is a long-term concern. So you like them more than Boozer? [1:21:18] I love Boozer. [1:21:19] Those are so good. He's incredible. Um, [1:21:24] I think his floor is maybe even higher than anyone else in the draft, and his ceiling is pretty damn high, too. I just think those two guys as fulcrums of elite offenses could be so special that I don't know if I could take Boozer over any of them.

[1:21:37] over either the banso or uh peterson but i i love booster i was absolutely blown away by the booster tape as i've mentioned several times on the zach low show [1:21:47] This is the most Zach Lowe question possible. It's from Connor in Bend, Oregon. [1:21:52] Every time I listen to people praise the Knicks roster construction, [1:21:55] I think to myself... [1:21:58] My Blazers did it first. [1:22:00] 2015. [1:22:02] Dame, Wesley Matthews, Nick Batum, Aldridge, Robin Lopez. [1:22:07] A season that ended with the Blazers getting dog-walked by Memphis, Dame getting his playoff lumps, and Wes tearing his Achilles. [1:22:13] Um, [1:22:14] With my dread at the possibility of our new owner moving the team, it's nice to imagine. [1:22:18] another reality where the Blazers won a championship. So Dame wasn't, [1:22:21] Dame wasn't really Dame yet. [1:22:23] In that playoffs in Memphis, he was 16% from three. [1:22:28] Memphis beat them in five games. [1:22:31] But he is right. That was the construction. It was a little bit similar to that Knicks construction. Aldridge left after the season. That Blazers team, I went back. That team was... [1:22:40] Really good on paper. They traded for Aflalo. They had CJ McCollum, younger. They had Myers Leonard. [1:22:46] Did Alan Crabb a year away from getting paid $72 million by the Nets? [1:22:51] Pretty solid team. The West Matthews thing killed them though. [1:22:55] Look, [1:22:56] That could be my burner account from Ben, Oregon, who emailed that in. I knew you'd love it. It's one of my most beloved... [1:23:03] forgotten teams. [1:23:04] Ever. I absolutely love that team. It's Nick Batum. It's Robin Lopez, Wesley Matthews. Everything just came. They were a classic greater than the sum of their parts team, and they were super fun to watch. And then one by one, it all kind of came undone, starting with Wes tearing his Achilles. And then L.A. leaves in free agency, I believe, after that playoff loss too. And so that was hanging over the team all year. It was a beautiful team to watch. They won a lot of games. And I do think they had an outside chance of having, like, making a finals. And they just didn't, and that's...

[1:23:34] That's tough, man. It's hard to win a title. [1:23:36] These two are related. One's from EB, who says he's a Homer Milwaukee fan. He gets upset that people don't mention Giannis' 50-point closeout game six. [1:23:46] Why is Brunson's thing over that already? So he had a whole thing about that. And then Jordan from Hoboken said... [1:23:53] everything you have said on your pods about [1:23:57] Galen Brunson should also apply to Eli Manning. Being an outfunder championship team trumps everything. Eli did it twice. [1:24:02] You bump Brunson all the way up to 41 on your Pantheon or your Pyramid. Imagine if he did what he did twice. He left you in the Hall of Fame, blah, blah, blah. [1:24:12] Here's the difference comparing Brunson to Eli Manning and Giannis. This will be the first podcast. This is this. I can't wait for this. [1:24:21] Um, [1:24:24] There was... [1:24:25] a real inevitability with what was happening with Brunson. [1:24:28] in these fourth quarters that I think, [1:24:32] kind of trumped that. As great as that Giannis 50-point game was, [1:24:36] It was a lot of chewing your nails that he was going to make free throws, and he was [1:24:40] I'm a little bit of a heater. [1:24:43] And then Eli was basically would have a couple of great throws, but it wasn't like he was dominant. [1:24:48] Brunson broke the Spurs by game five. I just felt like [1:24:52] I just value a little differently what he did the playoffs and especially game five. And I think it's hard to compare it. [1:25:00] Um, [1:25:01] First of all, Giannis' 50-point closeout game is being mentioned because every graphic on television that has had, like, here's where Jalen Brunson's closeout game ranks in NBA history, is mentioning that game. It's an all-time classic game. The Drew to Giannis Lobb is one of the craziest, most iconic plays in the history of the game. That was game five, though. Okay. No, that's the end of the series. No, game five was in Phoenix, and then game six—

[1:25:22] was the 50-point game. [1:25:24] That was the game when he couldn't shoot the free throws. [1:25:27] It's all right. [1:25:28] But he has a preposterous free throw of [1:25:31] line in the closeout game. Remember, he missed the two near the end of game five, and it was the whole thing of, oh, Giannis' free throws. And then he went on the heater and [1:25:39] Game 6. I just... [1:25:40] I felt like Brenton was a level above it. [1:25:43] When it gets to the point where you're down 10 and you're just like, here comes Brunson. [1:25:48] That's a whole other level. Against Wembenyama and that defense, too. I mean, look, it's all incredible, but Brunson, Giannis, two great closeout games, and I don't, you know... [1:26:01] I don't have a strong take. I guess Brunson Brunson is just sexier because it's like, [1:26:05] A six foot nothing point guard. [1:26:07] in real time problem solving it's a hard work title well it's just problem solving it's like you're over there you're over here we're gonna do this we're gonna do that and i'm just gonna get to my spot no matter what you do and make tough shots tough classic nba shots janice is not a classic nba shot shot maker brunson is [1:26:23] Thank you. [1:26:24] Seth from 707 says, hey, conspiracy bill. [1:26:27] Was that finals loss all part of Wimbanyama's long game to convince us that he's not an alien? [1:26:32] Oh, interesting. Like he zagged on us because he was like, if I win the title at age 22, they might investigate me. [1:26:40] They might find out where I'm actually from. I really like this idea. As an old school X-Files fan, I'm all about it. Have you seen Disclosure Day yet? [1:26:48] No, I still haven't. Neither have I. No, I haven't seen it yet. I've seen it this week. It might be a solo. I'm just going to drive to a movie theater in the middle of the day by myself and watch it.

[1:26:57] Um, [1:27:00] Man, there's a Chris Paul question here. [1:27:03] that I'm going to skip. [1:27:04] It was about Chris Paul and the Pyramid because we're running out of time. I'll save it for the next time. [1:27:08] Um, [1:27:09] Tiago wanted to mention that he's forever grateful for Leon Rose in the next [1:27:15] Has there ever been a front office roster combination that saved the image of an owner [1:27:20] more than these guys save Dolan, who is considered one of the stupidest owners of all time. [1:27:26] mishandled the team for decades in the market and now [1:27:30] They win the title. It's a really good one. [1:27:33] I couldn't think of another owner that had his legacy just flipped like that. The only one that was close was Steinbrenner in 96th. [1:27:41] Because they had him one for 18 years and he kind of, he went crazy Steinbrenner in the eighties and, [1:27:47] early nine days was like, Oh my God, this guy's deranged. And then all of a sudden, you know, [1:27:52] They built around the farm system and they built this next dynasty and it kind of flipped the Steinbrenner narrative again. So when I get to go. So deranged they had Larry David made a Seinfeld caricature. People are like, that sounds about right. Like that doesn't seem too deranged at all. [1:28:06] Yeah. Um, [1:28:08] But yeah, that's a good one. And then... [1:28:11] There was this email from David Hartman, because I've been talking a lot about home field advantage and home court advantage and what's happened. [1:28:17] And he reminded me that Wertham and Moskowitz did that book, Scorecasting, when we were at Redland. Yeah, I grabbed it. [1:28:22] In the first chapter, [1:28:25] It's about home field advantage. They crunched the data. The writers concluded the single biggest factor was referee bias.

[1:28:31] They dismissed travel, crowd noise, everything else, and concluded subconsciously or subconsciously, [1:28:37] The refs don't want to piss off the home crowd. And then he says, in the last 15 years, we have [1:28:42] technology replays. We have these [1:28:45] Referee grading systems are different. [1:28:47] Pretty good explanation, right? I got to tell you, it's a good explanation. I think the referees are tougher and better trained. [1:28:53] tougher in terms of like I don't think they care. [1:28:56] About the crowd. I will say I'm getting it's it's old man yells a cloud of me. I'm getting pretty close to the how about we just review nothing solution to basketball. Just like how about there's no reviews because I just these games just take forever and the reviews sap all about soccer is fast. [1:29:14] Soccer, they're banging these out. It's like, how is this 100 times easier than basketball? Soccer... [1:29:21] Are they stopping the clock for the hydration break in the World Club? Okay, so they're at least stopping the clock for that. Yeah. Because I would love to introduce soccer to the stopwatch. It's a great... [1:29:33] Great advantage. Seven. [1:29:35] Seven minutes. I'm just going to do seven. Everyone good with that? Seven? That would have been funny if they did that for game five of the finals. The Spurs now have two extra minutes. Four. Okay, I guess it's four. Four on the dot. [1:29:48] Caleb wants to know, Jimmy Butler demanded a trade from Minnesota because he hated playing with Towns and Wiggins. [1:29:55] And now Wiggins and Towns are now champions. And Butler is not and likely won't ever be one. Is he going to snap this summer?

[1:30:03] I thought it was going to, the question was going to go the other way and say, who has been most wrong exiting a team? [1:30:10] uh, [1:30:12] About the internal makeup of the team they exited. [1:30:17] Pretty crazy, though. [1:30:19] Yeah, and into like [1:30:21] Cat and Wiggins got it done. [1:30:23] A couple more really quick. OG, [1:30:25] Lawrence from Toronto asks if OG is the GOAT player with no all-star selections. [1:30:30] Right now, probably Andre Miller was in the lead before that finals. [1:30:34] So I, I, I did the research. You want to hear the, I did a deep dive, uh, [1:30:38] Basketball reference, I looked at OG stats and only regular season stats because that's the only way you can do it. [1:30:44] And I went, [1:30:45] Uh, [1:30:46] Over 7,000 career points. He's right around 7,200. [1:30:50] PR above 13, win shares above 35, value over a placement player above 10, because that's where he is. No all-star appearances. [1:30:58] Um, [1:31:00] The most points scored, the answer is no. Despite the fact that you have to account for what just happened in the playoffs, like 21 a game on insane shooting, the iconic tip-in. I mean, Eddie Johnson has 19,000 career points and never made an All-Star team. [1:31:16] Our friend Eddie Johnson from... [1:31:18] Yes. Johnson and Termini. I was surprised, too. [1:31:21] He's on this list. No All-Stars. No All-Stars. He's not an All-Star. It's part of my search. Well, he deserves it. He's a Jokic fan. Eddie Johnson, that's what you get for hating Jokic. Andre Miller's up there. CJ McCollum, just in the news today, like three games into this playoffs would have been the answer to this question. And I just think there are too many. Sam Perkins is on here. Robert Horry is on here. That's an interesting one. Oh, Robert Horry is a good one. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of – let me see who else I wrote down.

[1:31:51] Yeah, no, there's a lot of... [1:31:53] There was Michael Cooper, Marcus Camby, Jason Terry. Lamar Odom. [1:31:58] is on here. There's some good ones. Tony Kukoc. So what do you think the answer is? I think the answer is I can't. [1:32:05] Right now, no, just because the career stats are – He needs another seven, eight years. Yeah, but because those guys are pretty – Jamal Crawford has 19,000 some points. Those are pretty accomplished dudes. Grant Hill is – I'm sorry, I saw George Hill. It's George Hill. Forget it. No, Grant Hill. You're got George Hill. I just think there are too many. Aaron Gordon is a good one for this, another championship, second, third wheel. That's a really good one. And put us in the stats. [1:32:35] So I mentioned Michael Bridges, by the way. [1:32:40] He's on the list too. Consecutive game streak. He's... [1:32:43] kind of messed around with. Mark, I messed up this email. He said he watched Without Limits. Couldn't [1:32:49] I hope I wonder if the Knicks figured out the Bill Bowerman success equation. [1:32:53] And basically how he told Steve Fronten, stop front running. [1:32:56] Because he'd lose. [1:32:58] You're burning out your gas in the beginning, Spurs out. I screwed this up when I did the pod, and I talked about how he would roar from behind. Bowerman was the one that was like, you're expending too much energy. Stay behind. Come up in the end. And was that basically what the Knicks were doing with the Bill Bowerman strategy of they would let the Spurs punch themselves out basically and then come in late? So I wanted to apologize to him.

[1:33:21] Okay. [1:33:22] This is the last one, Zach. [1:33:24] Jeff M. [1:33:26] He said, in honor of From Hell Month on the Rewatchables. [1:33:31] Two coming this week. [1:33:33] I wanted to present the case on the Pacers having one of the worst from hell years in sports history. [1:33:37] We lose the final after our beloved star tears his Achilles in game seven after hitting three threes. [1:33:43] The same star gets shingles, derailing his recovery. [1:33:46] Our tank season is rewarded by losing our lottery pick in a 50-50 coin flip. Our arch nemesis wins the championship without having to play us and simultaneously kills the Halliburton shot and Reggie Miller. [1:33:58] It's been one gut punch after another. [1:34:00] I fully suspect Halliburton to get attacked with African S.B.s this summer. Been riding with you for almost 20 years, by far my longest relationship. That's Jeff M. And then Samir chimed in. [1:34:12] I've had enough of everyone applauded in the 26 Knicks without mentioning that I never went through the team that knocked them out the last two years. [1:34:18] I can't remember another NBA team who just got to avoid beating their bugaboo team to win it all. Just a brutal way to wrap up the most devastating Pacers year. So I got a lot of Pacer emails like this. [1:34:28] And when you talked about winners and losers, and I think the Nets were – [1:34:32] the biggest loser of that finals. [1:34:34] I think the Pacers were like second. The Pacers a year ago were riding high with their fans. [1:34:39] And a year later, on top of everything else that happened, then they had to watch the Knicks win the title. It's brutal. [1:34:44] You know, it's funny that it didn't pop into my head that way. It, [1:34:47] Funny because the Halliburton shot has been so in my mind because of what happened in game one of the conference finals this year, where the Knicks pulled the reverse comeback and have the shot that hits the rim and bounces in. So it's not like that team's been forgotten, but yeah, you're, you're right. The Pacers eliminated the Knicks two years in a row. The first one I just, the Knicks just like ran out of players. I think they were the better team in that series probably. And just like everybody got hurt, including Brunson in the last game. And Anobi could barely move if you remember that.

[1:35:15] But yeah, I mean, look, the Pacers... [1:35:17] This is why they're one of my more interesting teams coming into the next season. A, like half their team is extension L's will. And B, they just made the Zubats trade that became a little bit more painful for them than maybe they anticipated. But they're loaded for bear next year. Like, why not? Why not them as your East favorite? Why not? [1:35:33] The biggest question would be Halliburton. What's he going to look like next year? [1:35:37] Agreed. But Zubats will be better for them. They basically have everybody else back in some form. [1:35:42] Um, same coach, all that stuff. And I, I got an email from Mark J. A couple of people asked this too. [1:35:47] The Hal Burton actually getting hurt in Game 7... [1:35:51] is that officially move into like one of the higher levels of great what ifs in the history of the league. Absolutely. [1:35:58] No question. It's also like, if they win that game, does all the Brunson stuff happen with Halliburton last year? [1:36:04] to some degree. It probably, I mean, his stats weren't as good. He was 18, nine, and six in the finals. Brunson was 33 in the final. Like, there was something different to what Brunson was doing, but Haliburton was in the vicinity. [1:36:16] What if Oklahoma City still has not won a title? Again, if we're doing what ifs, they lose that finals, and then this year happens exactly as it happened, and they're still like, what is this offseason like for them if they haven't won? [1:36:28] A title it's also like [1:36:31] the one of the most, I mean, there's been obviously like gruesome injuries happen more than you would like. There was just one in a soccer game the other day for Canada, right? Like those are horrible. But in terms of just like, [1:36:43] taking away the drama of,

[1:36:46] and of a big moment like that, [1:36:48] I can't remember anything quite on that level to the point that when Brunson went down in game one of these finals, [1:36:56] I had like PTSD from that. Like you do not like we've just spent a week hyping up this finals. Everyone is beyond damned up. Please do not let this be a thing. [1:37:05] that just erodes the finals and like that, [1:37:07] I can't remember ever feeling like that during a game. That was game seven. Forget that he starts hot and all that. It's like this magical run by a team that pretty much no one saw getting that far in the playoffs. And they might actually pull this thing off. That had never won the title. Never won the title. Obviously, ABA, they won titles. 50 plus years ago. But like, just, and then the whole game was weird after. Even the Patriots being, weren't the Patriots ahead at halftime? Or it was like a one-point game at halftime. It felt like you were a zombie the rest of the night. [1:37:36] SGA talked about it during the playoffs, actually saying he wanted to win again because it was so weird the way they won the title the first time. He almost wanted a normal... [1:37:45] version of the same experience. That Halliburton thing was like a black cloud over that whole night. All right. [1:37:50] Zach Lowe, doing a podcast tomorrow? I think so. We're all kind of on Giannis, waiting on Giannis. We're on call. We're like doctors. We're on call with Giannis. Yeah. At the mercy of Giannis. I have a busy sports fan week coming up. And so we're going to have to find ways to pot around that. And during the NBA draft, that will be. [1:38:11] in, weather permitting, in whatever stadium they're playing in Toronto, watching Croatia play Panama. And I can't, I really, it's my first international soccer game, first big international soccer game ever. I really wanted to just like, I want to sing the songs. I want to drink. I don't want to be sober. Now I got to be sober because the draft is going to be happening. Who knows? I might podcast that night after the game. I'm robbed of like full hooliganism. I'm robbed of it. Just pod the next day. Just have the whole experience.

[1:38:41] We've got to win this one. Got to win. Got to get a W. [1:38:44] All right. Good luck. Thanks for popping on. Going to bring it out. [1:38:48] Joe House right now to recap the U.S. Open. Bye, Zach. Bye. Have fun. [1:38:53] This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? [1:39:03] You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists. So everything's working together toward your goals. [1:39:10] Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner. [1:39:13] Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com. [1:39:23] This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T-Mobile Home Run Derby is right around the corner. Might be one of the best showcases of pure power in all sports. Baseball's [1:39:32] Biggest sluggers. [1:39:34] along with some legendary [1:39:35] Announcers Pujols, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia. [1:39:39] El Duncan. [1:39:40] Yeah. [1:39:41] Hunter Pence, Matt Faskersian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. [1:39:48] You swing. [1:39:49] to make history. I'm interested to see what Bond says about this, actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park, [1:39:55] In Philly, watch the T-Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. [1:40:03] This house coming on. I see a black screen. [1:40:07] I still see a black screen. Can you hear me? There he is. There we go. Yeah, we did it. Hey, we did Zach Lowe.

[1:40:13] Bye, Zach. [1:40:15] Bye, boys. I saved one last mailbag question for you before you tell us what happened in the U.S. Open. Let's go. Because we did a bunch of Pacer ones, but I had to save this specifically for you. [1:40:25] Connor from Indianapolis. [1:40:27] Did the last two years of the Indiana Pacers mirror the plot in Boogie Nights? [1:40:31] up until game seven of 2025 finals being a Pacers fan was like being a 1970s Dirk Diggler fan [1:40:39] Things were looking great. [1:40:41] Then the ball dropped and it's 1980. Halliburton gets taken out like Little Bill's wife. The team tanks and loses their pick like Amber Waves loses custody of her kid. All while seeing their rival, the Knicks, replace them like Johnny Doe. [1:40:53] Watching the Pacers on League Pass was as bad as Dirk's music career. [1:40:57] Can you give us more sports parallels to the cast of Boogie Nights with the Pacers? [1:41:01] keeps going. So that would be Kevin Pritchard, the GM, as Jack Horner. [1:41:07] Halliburton as Dirk. Pascal Siakam as Amber Waves. [1:41:10] It's my dojo! We've got to do somebody... Kevin Pritchard is worse than Jack. Kevin Pritchard might be the colonel. Yeah. He should be in jail for what he did. Number five pick? Nembhard is Reed Rothschild. [1:41:28] That's pretty good. [1:41:30] Aaron Neesmith as Roller Girl. [1:41:33] Sure. You never know when he's just going to pop in and change a game. TJ McConnell is Becky Barnett. [1:41:39] OG Toppin as Buck you kind of never know where he fits in but he's always ambitious Miles Turner definitely Little Bill

[1:41:49] just out. [1:41:50] Matherin as Todd Parker. Todd! [1:41:53] And then Brunson's Johnny Doe. And I think that's it. I think that's it for the thing. Yeah, I did. I did some pastures for you. Okay. Great job. So we started this live podcast during the last few holes of the US Open. I assumed Wyndham Clark was going to. [1:42:07] Take care of business. You're going to be talking about it with Nathan later tonight at Fairway Rollin'. But he made it a little hairy. He won by a stroke. [1:42:14] What happened? He bogeyed the 17th hole, which is a par three. He was on the green and, you know, he left himself. This was part of his his true secret sauce. This entire golf tournament, he made so many pars from, you know, 10 feet from six feet from 13 feet. He saved par like crazy. And then it came all the way down to the very end. [1:42:44] And he gacked it. He gacked it, but... [1:42:47] He validated because he came out on the 18th hole. His approach was short. He was 52 feet from the hole on the putt that he had on the 18th hole. He needed to get down in two to win the golf tournament, and he putted to like two inches. I mean, it was an awesome putt that he made on 18th. So you're rooting for the playoff. And you're not a big Wyndham Clark guy. Well, I don't think I'm alone in that. Can we dive into this? Sure. [1:43:17] and he's American and it's the US Open.

[1:43:20] And yet you could feel it. [1:43:22] in the crowd all weekend, um, tepid applause for the good shots. And then, uh, [1:43:28] if something bad happened, you could hear a couple of people doing like cheering over it. It was just, [1:43:33] What? [1:43:34] It seems like all these little tiny things that he did, but nothing major, but they all added up and people have just decided, I don't like this guy. Well, there was – [1:43:43] a back-to-back, speaking of major, a bit of misbehavior last year. In 2025 at the PGA Championship, he threw his driver, snapped it, and it came close to hitting somebody behind him. He was angry with the shot with his driver, snapped it, threw it, and almost hit somebody. Well, maybe that person shouldn't have been there. Well, that person was just standing behind the tee. I mean, that person was not in harm's way. Should not have been in harm's way. [1:44:13] the most infamous misbehavior was at Oakmont where the U.S. Open was conducted last year outside of Pittsburgh, one of America's all-time great courses, a great U.S. Open venue. With all of this history, like when you walk into the clubhouse, the history, it's the same, you know, floors that people have been walking on. And when you go up to the locker room, they still have the wooden benches that have spike marks that are there, that have been there for 80 years or so. [1:44:43] terrible on i think friday and went up in there with some kind of of weapon and smashed in one of these lockers that have been there for you know decades um and kind of rolled out without going or you know doing the appropriate thing apologizing yeah no my bad and so um you know he's been living with that since and and it really made him unpopular and there was not a giant act of

[1:45:13] to follow quickly enough, I think, for at least sort of golf sickos to where it was clear like he he's he has owned it since then. And he did, you know, pay for restitution. He did make a share. So he basically became Patrick Reed from this a little bit. Yes. And, you know, in some respects, we've been missing, speaking of Patrick Reed, a villain in golf. I was going to say, all this sounds great. Like we always talk about how fucking boring golfers are. [1:45:43] destroy a locker at oakmont everybody's like put him in fucking jail you're right that's exactly definitely people get so mad what pick a side do we want charismatic fucking crazy golfers or just boring guys what do we want well he he got his act together and today was especially uh compelling because the entire crowd was rooting for scotty scheffler who he was playing with he was the crowd was rooting for scotty scheffler because it was scotty's chance to to win the grand slam his first [1:46:13] He didn't have it. I watched the first 15 holes before we went live on Netflix, and he just couldn't get it going. He just couldn't make a putt. He just couldn't get over it. He was getting, especially on the back, his approach play was very good. He was putting himself in position to make birdies. He just couldn't get any of those putts to drop. [1:46:31] And Clark hung on. He got out to far enough lead on Thursday. He just hung on for dear life. I mean, after Thursday, he shot two over par over his remaining three rounds. But not the right two over for you because you were shorting him yesterday.

[1:46:45] I sure did show him yesterday. With some wagers. That's true. I had him over 71 and a half strokes yesterday. He did that today. Did you have that today? I didn't touch it today. I left alone all the betting with him. Well, he did. [1:46:58] It was a classic. He's up six. Whoa, now he's up three. Yes. Like within like a half hour of when the tournament started. [1:47:05] There was regression built into the performance, especially yesterday. I mean, he really pulled the Saturday round even par out of his butt. I mean, it was a miracle that he saved par from several places. And he had really the whole of the tournament was the eagle that he made on 16 on Saturday in front of no fans whatsoever. [1:47:35] television purposes to for it to be some prime time and for that golf course you know out there in the hamptons to get some of that late afternoon glow everybody got the fuck out of there everybody's like i'm not sticking around to watch this there's trains that take two hours to get to new york so the golf course is basically empty but the shot of the tournament was his uh approach on the 16th hole he made eagle the only guy the entire golf tournament to make eagle on 16 and that that to [1:48:05] I ended up winning in the tournament. Yeah. [1:48:08] And then Sam Burns was great today. [1:48:11] I got to see his whole round. Hard charge. He did it. He did it. He had a 49-footer at one point and did the whole thing, but it was just too much. He had putts on 17 and 18 if either one of those fall. Now, he didn't really make a great stroke on 17, but on 18, that ball was half a rotation from going into the hole. And then we would have had a playoff, and then that would have been something.

[1:48:32] Would that have been an 18-hole playoff or just a sudden? No, so they changed that rule. It's now a two-hole aggregate, and I think they play the same hole on repeat. That's right. I forgot. They did that. [1:48:44] A little while. Yeah, I remember that. [1:48:47] Um, [1:48:48] All right, so what's your grade for the tournament overall? [1:48:51] It sounds like it was like all the golf threads were on and all the people we know, everybody like really seemed like they enjoyed rooting against Wyndham Clark, which is like a fun- [1:49:01] It's a fun wrinkle for a golf tournament. It was like, we don't really have the American villain ever. [1:49:06] Yeah, we didn't get kind of the carnage that this golf course can deliver because there was anticipated wind in the forecast Thursday and Friday and it never really materialized. Wyndham Clark was supposed to be on the wrong side of the weather forecast on Thursday. His 64 was what won in the golf tournament, 64 Thursday afternoon when the winds were supposed to be at their worst. [1:49:36] was very careful to not have the golf course get away from them to where the balls were going to be because of the wind, you know, just rolling off willy-nilly. So they watered the golf course, and there were some complaints that it was a little bit too easy earlier on. But, you know, I give it the whole thing overall, I guess, a solid B. I mean, wire-to-wire is pretty impressive out of Wyndham. He went out and did the damn thing, and we got one hard charge out of Sam Burns on Sunday, which is, I guess, all you could ask for. We needed somebody to do it.

[1:50:06] going into Sunday, you know, leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the drama, but we got some drama. [1:50:13] I'm asking Claude right now. [1:50:16] How many two-time U.S. champions in golf have there been? [1:50:19] What's the answer? [1:50:20] I think six, seven, seven. [1:50:23] He won this a couple years ago in 23. Yes. And then he wins this one. It's more than six or seven. [1:50:30] Fudd's still thinking. Yeah. It's more because Tiger and Jack both have multiple... [1:50:36] 24 men. Yeah, okay. I've done it. I was thinking about, there was a stat about how quickly guys have won. After you win one, how quickly do you win your second? And he's in the top. [1:50:50] handful of guys. He did it, you know, in pretty short order. [1:50:54] Where is he in the pecking order for American golfers now? [1:50:58] pretty high up. Sheffers won. Sheffers won. [1:51:00] Yeah. I mean, he immediately puts, he changed his, his putter at the masters this year and he was like, [1:51:08] putting 135th on tour going into that tournament. Now he's number one on tour. And it was his putter that saved his ass all week long. And now it seems like the sky's the limit with the confidence that he has putting wise, because, you know, this Shinnecock is an enormous putting challenge. And, you know, he was all around, though, very good. Off the tee, he was in the top 15. In his short game, he was top 15. And his putting, he was top five. That's how you win a U.S. Open.

[1:51:38] fucking drives too jesus christ yeah oh well because they they had the benefit of a very firm golf course so a lot you know uh bryson had a 401 yard drive on the 18th hole before he missed the cut on friday um but the yeah by the way that was your best pick of the week thank you yes i did you shorted bryson you said he wasn't going to make the cut i did say that like four to one [1:52:01] No, no, the odds went way down. It started off near two to one for the week. And then as it got to be Wednesday going into Thursday, America woke up and jumped on it. I would like to say very humbly on fairway rolling two weeks ago, I said, I am betting to win at the U.S. Open. Wyndham Clark and Sam Burns. I had two picks that were from weeks ago that I said, I just want to have some money down. At the time, Sam Burns was 40 to one. And at the time, Wyndham Clark was 35 to one. [1:52:31] You can just see both of those guys coming in in very good form. Well, you should text me that info as you're asking to borrow money to pay for your Saturday Wyndham Clark bets. Well, you could also listen to the show. I'll just bend my you. You could listen to the show. I mean, that would be another thing. I'm just trying to, you know, because you did get killed on Saturday. [1:52:49] You were telling me Wyndham was going to hit like a 75. [1:52:52] I thought he was going to shoot 73. Listen, there's so much to bet on right now. I mean, this World Cup, I'm just wading into these. I'm not even asking to bundle anymore. I'm just like, ah, Belgium. All right. I walked right into it. Hench put Turkey into a parlay for us. Even after I swore off Turkey, I told everybody. They murdered us. Never betting on Turkey again. All they did was take shots on the net that didn't go in for two hours. Sons of bitches. Unbelievable.

[1:53:22] team parlay on Friday and that was the last piece. It was like four to one and then [1:53:26] All they did was just shoot the ball over the net and head the ball to the side. We said don't bet on Turkey anymore, and then we did it because we're more of us. Unbelievable. Paraglide. Park the bus. What team is Giannis on? I miss you, and I want to— But we don't know. He's going to wait until the most inappropriate time possible. The trade is going to be announced. The draft? Yeah, like one minute before the draft. [1:53:50] I've loved the World Cup, though. Did you get patriotic on Friday? Oh, I mean, you know, it's must-see TV at this point now. This is because of how dominant U.S. was against Paraguay. And the, like, eye-opening reaction by the soccer community taking U.S. seriously. Like, well, if the soccer community is invested in this team and thinks that they're capable of great things, and I want to see it, I want to see what they're capable of. [1:54:15] And I thought that performance against Australia, that was a trap game. But they didn't get trapped. They let themselves, you know. [1:54:22] Go out and feel it. I love my guy is McKinney. I love that guy, McKinney. I feel like he's the the straw that stirs the drink. I love I honestly they had the most likable group of dudes they've had. I love Jedi. [1:54:35] The Freeman? [1:54:38] How about that? Antonio Freeman's son. Amazing. [1:54:41] Unbelievable. This is what we've been begging for. Yeah. Right? [1:54:44] These guys are badasses. Let's get our athletes. I didn't feel like we flopped that much. I just really, Balogun's been great.

[1:54:52] And we'll get ballistic healthy. That's the key. [1:54:55] What's happening with your team on Tuesday night? [1:54:57] We still think you're taking AJ. I sure do. Yes, I do think that. Because they're trying, this always happens around the draft, where it's like, [1:55:04] Sources say the Wizards taking a longer look at Darren Peterson. It's like they're taking AJ. My phone has sources say they're taking a long look at Peterson. And that's just people saying that to me. But I'm not permitting it. I'm not acknowledging it. AJ won. [1:55:23] I heard Utah maybe had a secret workout of Peterson this weekend. Okay. Um, [1:55:29] I don't know what happens at two, though. I still think they're taking Boozer, but if, you know, one workout and... [1:55:35] Obviously, they have to do all the diligence on Peterson. What would you do if you were Utah? [1:55:40] Take boozer. [1:55:41] I would take Booster too. I think he raises their floor. And for that team, what they've assembled, you want somebody that's not a question mark in any way, shape, or form that can immediately come in and help the overall, you know, help the – [1:55:56] the tide rise up and be on the same timeline. I like having crazy front court depth and figuring it out because I think it's easier to get guards than... [1:56:05] You don't have another pick though, right? [1:56:08] No I think that's it You don't have one in the first time right [1:56:11] And you'll try to trade Anthony Davis at some point. [1:56:13] All right, you have to go do fairway rolling. Let's go. I'm going to see you. [1:56:17] on Tuesday night, live right after the draft. Me, you, J. Kyle, man, right afterwards. I cannot wait. We'll do winners and losers.

[1:56:25] All kinds of stuff. Maybe [1:56:27] We don't need drunk house, but maybe like a couple drinks house. I have to toast AJ. I have to welcome AJ to the city with an appropriate toast. Maybe sing a little Washington song. Thanks to Zach Glow. Thanks to Joe House. I'll see you on Tuesday night. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Thanks to everybody who watched on Netflix. I'm going to see you again. [1:56:47] on Tuesday night. Thanks, House. My pleasure. [1:56:55] Must be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE. [1:57:25] or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867. [1:57:34] This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? [1:57:44] You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists. So everything's working together toward your goals. [1:57:51] Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner. [1:57:54] Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com.

[1:58:03] Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes. [1:58:33] - Yeah.