From Trump’s Attorney to Attorney General: The Rise of Todd Blanche

[00:00] On TikTok, entire communities are turning curiosity into connection. History lovers share stories that bring the past into focus. Scientists and educators break down big ideas with experiments and insights that make discovery feel approachable. [00:13] And across art, language, and everyday tips, people on TikTok give fresh perspective on the world we share. [00:20] TikTok is a place for curiosity. [00:22] where learning is fun, connection is meaningful, and discovery is fun. [00:26] never stops. [00:29] From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily Show. [00:40] To be confirmed as the next Attorney General, Todd Blanche must convince members of the U.S. Senate that despite how political the Department of Justice has now become, [00:52] It would be even worse without him at the top. Today, as his confirmation hearings begin, my colleague Glenn Thrush recounts the unlikely story of how Blanche became Trump's legal enforcer. [01:14] It's Wednesday, July 15th. [01:23] Hey, Glenn. Hello. [01:25] Good morning to you, sir. [01:26] Good morning to you, sir. Was there an echo in here?

[01:30] Is there an echo in here? [01:34] Um... [01:34] All right, well... [01:36] On to business. Glenn, in a few hours... [01:40] Wednesday morning, the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to begin confirmation hearings for President Trump's [01:48] Next pick to be his attorney general, Todd Blanche. And increasingly... [01:54] It looks like [01:56] this hearing is going to be [01:58] pretty complicated and the outcome... [02:01] Genuinely uncertain? [02:03] We're at a pretty precarious moment for the Department of Justice and for Todd Blanche. Over the past six weeks, really, at President Trump's prompting, Blanche oversaw the creation of this incredibly controversial and highly unusual $1.8 billion bill. [02:21] fund to compensate purported victims of Biden and Obama era Justice Department overreach, the J6 defendants and people who were subject to other investigations. And in late May, the Senate Republicans just had it. They called in Blanche and for about an hour, grilled him, lambasted him, told him it was totally unacceptable. So the dynamic here is [02:51] skeptical of recent moves that Blanche has made in coordination with Trump. Now, Blanche has spent the better part... [02:57] of a month trying to clean that stuff up. But there are still several members in the Senate and a couple of members on the Senate Judiciary Committee who really have serious, tough questions for him. And this is really a first for someone who is facing cabinet scrutiny. What do you mean a first?

[03:15] We're just in a totally different environment than the first wave of Trump cabinet nominees. They all basically got a pass. There was some tough questioning, but that was a period of time early on when Republicans were just inclined to line up and give the president as much authority as possible. We're long past that. And the gravitational pull of the midterm elections is forcing a lot of these Republicans who had been in line to start raising some serious questions. [03:45] Increasingly independent-minded, agitated, [03:49] midterm fearful Republican senators of Todd Blanche. [03:55] Let's talk about how Blanche became... [03:59] Trump's pick for attorney general, how he, uh, [04:03] got onto Trump's radar, [04:06] and became the person he hopes will define the remaining years of the second term when it comes to the Department of Justice. Just tell us the Blanche story. [04:17] So this is what's perhaps most interesting. There are not a lot of data points in his biography that would have indicated he would have gone down this path. [04:24] Blanche, from the interviews I've done over the past year and a half, was a pretty vanilla federal prosecutor from the Southern District of New York. It's been described as the Yankee Stadium of federal prosecutors' offices. It's where Rudy Giuliani sort of gained his fame. Blanche rises through the ranks. [04:45] of that office. And like a lot of these guys got to midlife and decided he wanted to cash in. Right. So he jumps to a big time white shoe law firm in 2017 in New York. And at some point in time, Boris Epstein, Donald Trump's longtime legal advisor, connects with Blanche and enlists him to the criminal defense team representing Paul Manafort, Trump's first campaign chairman.

[05:15] into this rotation of Trump criminal defense lawyers. [05:19] And what's fascinating is in the period after Trump loses in 2020, [05:25] Blanche had a decision to make at this point in time. He could have cut bait from Trump. It really looked like Trump was a losing cause. But instead, what he did was he insisted on representing Trump at this low ebb moment. [05:39] Over the objections of the leadership of his law firm and actually broke from his firm, started his own firm and threw in his lot with Trump. And like so many of these entrepreneurial characters in Trump's second term, that decision is what really bonded him to Trump. He took a big risk on Trump. And that to the president is really the ultimate bond. [06:05] So just to be clear, Blanche quits this prestigious white shoe law firm job he has, the one he took to make money once he left government, in order to... [06:16] to take Trump [06:18] on as a client. That's the bet. [06:21] Yeah. And I think he made a decision that this was a big shot. Not everybody gets an opportunity to represent a former president of the United States. And we have seen that element of his character. It's almost like the fear of missing out that we talk about in Washington. Blanche wanted to be in the center of action. And I think he was willing to risk kind of a pedestrian successful career in the law to go for the big prize.

[06:45] So once Blanche decides to work with Trump, what ends up being the [06:50] the nature of this [06:52] partnership between defense lawyer and his client. [06:55] So the big moment came in the spring of 2023. And when Alvin Bragg, Manhattan district attorney, indicted Donald Trump on 34 counts. This is the hush money case that involves Stormy Daniels, diversion of Trump organization cash to potentially pay her off. [07:25] Trump. The big moment that people [07:28] have talked to me about and really remember was the cross-examination of the former Trump lawyer, Michael Cohen. [07:36] Star witness in that case because he according to Michael Cohen organizes a [07:42] the payment [07:43] to Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet. Yeah. And Blanche just sets about in sort of classic criminal defense lawyer fashion to dismantle Michael Cohen, demolishing his integrity. So he berates Cohen on the stand and just accuses him of being a flat out liar. And then he reminds Cohen that Cohen had once called Trump a dictator and said that the former [08:13] to the jury that Cohen so had it in for Trump that he could not...

[08:19] be objective and truthful. [08:22] in his testimony about Trump. [08:23] Exactly. And even though Trump didn't prevail, that kind of fight really impressed the president. And Blanche's performance in general was regarded as being pretty solid in a case that seemed to be an uphill climb for Trump. [08:53] And Blanche, I am told, while he was respectful to Trump, was also not afraid to express his opinion directly to Trump. So they develop... [09:01] A, trusting, candid, maybe even at times kind of fiery respect for each other. Yeah, I mean, like every relationship with Trump, it's a one-sided relationship. He's an employee, but he was one of those very few people who could truth tell to Trump, who could tell him, no, I am doing this to save you. And it's right around this time that Blanche's embrace of Trump becomes really personal. [09:31] to the Republican Party and moves to Florida, not too far from Trump. [09:36] But of course, the Hush Money case wasn't the only... [09:39] case facing Trump at that time. He had other big federal [09:44] cases against him. [09:46] that Blanche is working on. [09:49] This is what really...

[09:50] puts Todd Blanche on the national stage. And joining us now, Todd Blanche, former President Trump's lead defense attorney. I'm standing here with Todd Blanche, obviously one of Donald Trump's lead attorneys. Can you talk about his demeanor? How is he doing? [10:03] Trump is indicted on the classified documents case in Florida and his activities around the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Trump is dissatisfied with his initial legal team and he puts Blanche in charge. These cases should not have been charged, period. And any way we can get them dismissed. [10:33] gangly team of lawyers. And if it's immunity, we're going to get that case dismissed as well. And he hones in on what people call a stall and brawl strategy. The former president is currently embroiled in several cases. His approach is the same. Delay, delay, delay. Run the clock out to get it as close to the 2024 election as possible. [10:55] And really write legal briefs almost as if they were true social posts. Well, what are we doing? I mean, when you think about four indictments for four separate types of conduct of four separate jurisdictions, I don't have any clients that have indictments everywhere. He fully embraces Trump's argument that he is the victim of a witch hunt. That's been the core of Todd Blanche's legal argument for his entire association with Donald Trump.

[11:25] a political prosecution. There is no daylight between the two on that issue. The legal argument and the political argument are completely one. [11:38] And what is so important about those briefs is when you file them, even if they read like campaign documents, they set in motion a clock and a judge has to rule and it takes time. And what we all do. [11:51] remember from that period is that [11:54] Led by Blanche, Trump's legal team delays these two federal cases week after week, month after month, and ultimately... [12:02] They do run out the clock. I mean, it doesn't seem like it's a super sophisticated strategy, but it works. Ultimately, Trump resuscitates his political career, uses these indictments as the fuel for his second successful presidential campaign. And he gets reelected and the cases get thrown out. [12:25] Right, because as we would all learn during this period, the federal government cannot indict a sitting president. So these cases just fall away. [12:34] That's right. [12:35] And all of a sudden, this big bet that Todd Blanche made a couple of years earlier is about to pay off. [12:44] Thank you.

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[14:26] Thank you. [14:32] you [14:36] Glenn, talk us through exactly how this bet that Blanche had made to align himself with Trump at Trump's lowest point starts to pay off once Trump is back in the White House. [14:47] Well, Blanche wants a top job at DOJ. He wants the top job at DOJ. He doesn't get it. But instead, he gets the position of deputy attorney general, which is probably the most powerful position in Washington that people don't know about. [15:17] And Blanche winds up having even more power than most deputy attorney generals have. And from the very beginning, he and his right hand man, Emil Bove, begin enacting power. [15:30] key elements of Trump's plan. [15:34] First and foremost, it involves demoting, marginalizing and flat out firing career staff that they consider to have been part of the Jack Smith investigations and other things that flagged employees as being anti-Trump. Right. They start to fire anyone who touched the classified documents investigation or the January 6th investigation. They start seeking out revenge inside the Department of Justice.

[16:02] 26 weeks of Blanche's tenure was just this torrent of stories that we wrote about. [16:08] Teams being fired. The National Security Division, one of the most important parts of the department, was essentially dismantled. The Public Integrity Unit, which investigates public corruption, was the core of Jack Smith's team, was reduced from 30 to two staffers under Blanche's initial leadership. Blanche saw this as a nest of vipers. He imbibed the arguments that he made in court. [16:38] for most of the people who worked for him. So he completely reshaped the department and really isolated the attorney general and the politically appointed leadership from the rest of the building. So he creates this environment straight out of the box. [16:57] Beyond cleaning house at the Department of Justice, [17:00] How is Blanche advising the president as he's starting to test the bounds of the law in those first weeks and months of the second term? [17:09] Basically, what his job quickly evolves into is fielding these demands from the White House and from MAGA folks outside of the building to go after Trump's enemies or people who have gone after Republicans in the past or to protect people who they perceived as being persecuted by the Biden administration.

[17:39] as well. And Blanche has to curate these things. And this is where things get really hairy. And Blanche occupies this middle role where he is, in the broad sense, committed to [17:52] both publicly and privately, to executing Trump's desire to investigate these people, while at the same time putting on his hat as a prosecutor, deferring to his own experience, and to some extent deferring to the career staff, and determining what [18:08] moves are legal, what moves are practical, and what can't be done. And very quickly, Blanche falls into a pattern of essentially acting as an advisor to Trump of saying, you could try to do this legally, but your chances of succeeding in court are minimal. And the biggest example of this, the one that still looms large over the department, [18:38] And James Comey, the former FBI director on various charges in northern Virginia. Blanche advises the president and the president's staff that this is not a good idea. Right. Just to remind people, Letitia James is indicted on, I believe, mortgage fraud. James Comey, former FBI director, is indicted for allegedly lying to Congress. Right. [19:00] Blanche tells the president, look, you could do this. I'm not saying that it is outside of your authority to do, but that your chances of succeeding with the jury, grand jury in Virginia are very low and your chances of getting an actual conviction are practically zero. Right. And he would know because he's a former criminal defense attorney. Exactly. He's essentially giving Trump the kind of no BS advice that he gave him as a defense attorney. And as Blanche learned then, you know, you could lead the horse to water.

[19:30] right but sometimes the horse wants to indict the former fbi director even if the case isn't very strong and as we know without getting into the gritty details here the whole thing blows up and blanche's initial advice has proven to be right [19:43] Not observed, but ultimately correct. [19:47] Exactly. [19:48] We should probably note, even though it now sounds quaint, that this is not the typical relationship a president has to senior figures at the Department of Justice. There has in the past been a huge amount of independence and respect for the Department of Justice as a basically independent body within the executive branch. What you're describing is. [20:09] is a version of this relationship in which there's [20:12] No barrier between the two any longer. And they're basically working hand in hand. We've had powerful attorneys general, but this is an entirely different situation. So this view that Trump has of the Justice Department being an extension of his will and Blanche's essential acquiescence to that model are completely new in terms of the annals of the department. [20:35] Glenn, what you're describing helps, I think, to explain why... [20:39] Republican senators... [20:41] who are now being asked to confirm Todd Blanche as the next attorney general. [20:46] have some real questions. They recognize that Trump sees Blanche basically as his personal attorney atop the Department of Justice. They see these failed, overreaching... [20:59] strained prosecutions of Trump's enemies, and they have some real concerns.

[21:03] And Michael, we have not... [21:05] even talked about the Jeffrey Epstein files yet, which is a looming huge question. You know, Blanche, along with Pam Bondi, we've reported we're the ones who went to Donald Trump to tell him precisely how many times and in what context he was mentioned in these files. So he's playing this very ambiguous back and forth role in the Epstein files. Right. That's going to be a big issue. I'm sure he's going to get grilled on it in the hearing. But look, I think his big selling point [21:30] to Republicans is some version of I am the least bad option you could possibly have as deputy attorney general and as acting attorney general for the past couple of months. Forget my public statements quietly behind the scenes. I'm working the phones. I'm keeping a lot of really bad things from happening. [21:49] Was there truth to that? [21:50] I think there is some element of truth to that. He's one of the most ambiguous, hard to pin down characters I've ever covered. [21:57] Right. He seems different things at different times, I think, because he's a man who's very much in the middle here. He is, for instance, the guy who seems to have talked Donald Trump out of going after Jerome Powell, the former Fed chair for these excessive renovations at the Fed headquarters. That would have put a major, major wedge between Trump and Senate Republicans who did not want to see that kind of destabilization. Right. And ultimately, Trump drops that investigation. But he did start it. [22:27] Exactly. And inside the department, I think probably one of the most interesting dynamics has been Blanche's conflict with a character by the name of Ed Martin, who was inserted by the White House into the Justice Department to run this so-called anti-weaponization working group, which was created essentially to investigate all these grievances that MAGA and Trump had about the Biden administration.

[22:57] We're looking to prosecution of the J6ers, alleged anti-Christian and anti-Catholic bias, and a whole host of other issues. Martin is a guy who believes in naming and shaming people, that a legitimate use of the Justice Department isn't just to prosecute and investigate. It is to just get people's names out there in public in a political way so that they're embarrassed and that they have to lawyer up. [23:27] that show this tension between Blanche and Martin. [23:31] We'd known they had clashed over the months, but what we didn't really know was Blanche telling Martin, look, you're not abiding by Justice Department rules. You're talking publicly about grand jury testimony. This is not cool. I don't want you out there doing that. And eventually, earlier this year, Blanche sidelined Ed Martin. So that, I think, is the biggest data point that Blanche has, in fact, exercised something of a moderating influence. Fascinating. [24:01] Of course, there's the Anti-Weaponization Fund. Blanche has tried to play something of a moderating role on that one, too, right? He's attempted to walk it back a bit after the political backlash to kind of show Trump that this is not something that is ultimately going to work out. [24:17] for the administration. But then again, you get that contradiction. He could have refused to sign off on it in the first place. Right. A lot of stuff has gotten past him. And there's no question that the department has far less autonomy and independence than at any point in its history. Hmm. So,

[24:36] Where do things currently go? [24:38] stand as Blanche makes the case to Senate Republicans. [24:42] that things could be worse they could be much worse [24:46] And these Republicans say, well, thank you for not making them – [24:50] perhaps worse, but we don't like [24:53] Yeah. [25:04] What does that mean for the math of confirmation? Well, it's a tricky dynamic for Blanche. It only takes one Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee to vote against Blanche to essentially kill the nomination by boxing it up in committee. And right now, there are a couple of committee members who have expressed some skepticism about Blanche. [25:34] from Texas who was ousted in his primary and really has nothing left to lose. Right, because Trump is the reason he got ousted. Trump turned against him because Cornyn was insufficiently enthusiastic in endorsing him in 2024. And Cornyn is a guy with a center of gravity. He is a senator with a capital S. [25:55] And he was very, very hostile to the notion of the creation of the anti-weaponization. But more to the point, there was a second deal signed by Blanche that would essentially grant immunity to Donald Trump.

[26:09] and his family for tax investigations. And that appears to be a big sticking point for John Cornyn, who has refused to commit to supporting Blanche prior to the hearing. And he's refused to even say that he's leaning towards Blanche. That could prove to be a very big problem for Blanche if he can't resolve that issue. Right, because that's something that Blanche has not backed down from, unlike the weaponization fund where Blanche concedes, this isn't going to happen, maybe it [26:39] However, [26:39] backed away from this IRS immunity deal. [26:43] That's right, because Trump really cares about this. And if he gets out of the committee, he still has to get confirmed by the larger Senate. And, you know, that'll happen a month, month and a half from now. Dynamics of shifting really, really fast. And there are a couple of other senators who could be no votes. Cassidy, another lame duck senator from Louisiana, has shown an inclination to buck the administration. And then you get Lisa Murkowski in Alaska saying, [27:10] who is very independent and very critical of the Trump administration. She's also been noncommittal. So there's a lot of game here left to play. [27:19] Hmm. So what happens to Todd Blanche if the Senate doesn't confirm him? He has been the acting attorney general for quite a while now. Does he just remain that way? [27:32] What happens? [27:33] Under the general guidelines and the law, Blanche can remain pretty much indefinitely as acting attorney general.

[27:41] until Donald Trump leaves office. But that said, it is very important to Todd Blanche personally to get to the apex of this organization through a Senate confirmation. And in terms of the general legitimacy and the capacity to control your own government, it is really important as a token of a president who sees his power as the central facet of his political life to get this thing done [28:11] Senate that he again [28:13] views as he does Todd Blanche as essentially helpmates and employees. [28:19] Hmm, so... [28:22] When we think about the bet that Blanche made early on to go all in with Trump and how, yes, it is certainly paid off in the sense that Trump won a second term and Blanche got to be at the Department of Justice. [28:34] The final payoff for Blanche is Senate confirmation. [28:39] all the things he has to do, [28:42] to keep the president happy [28:44] may make it very hard [28:47] for him to get [28:48] these [28:49] Senate Republicans to give him that final payoff. That's the central tension of being the attorney general in Trump's second term. You know, and that's the big paradox. What Blanche has had to do [29:03] to get this nomination, to get Trump's support, might be the very thing that undermines his capacity to be confirmed.

[29:12] Because this is the Justice Department, even after everything that has happened in the last year and a half, there is the expectation... [29:20] Among senators, even Republicans who support Donald Trump, that this department provides a sense of legitimacy, is a bulwark for rule of law and should not be undermined and degraded in the way that some of these Republicans believe that it already has been. [29:43] Well, Glenn, thank you very much. Great talking to you. [29:50] We'll be right back. [29:54] I'm Dan Barry and I'm a long-time reporter with the New York Times. I've been here for 30 years and I've seen a lot of things change. I was here before there was a website. [30:03] But one thing hasn't changed at all, and that's the mission of The New York Times, to follow the facts wherever they lead. And if that means publishing something a government or a leader or a celebrity doesn't want aired, that's not our concern. If you believe in the importance of fact-driven reporting, you can support it by becoming a New York Times subscriber. [30:26] Here's what else you need to know today. So I thought I would just share a little bit about how the threats have affected me and my family personally. They have required me to, my children, to think about and see things that children should not have to see or think about. In unusually personal testimony on Tuesday, two members of the Supreme Court, Justices Elena Kagan and Amy Coney Barrett,

[30:56] more in security to protect the justices at work and at home. For some of us, those threats have come very close, and all of us live with the knowledge that they may again materialize. Kagan told lawmakers that the court expects a 38 percent increase in threats this year, following a 25 percent [31:26] ordered federal immigration officers to largely end their practice of stopping vehicles as they conduct their operations after those stops resulted in two shooting deaths over the past week. One of those deaths occurred in Texas, the other in Maine. [31:48] Today's episode was produced by Muj Zadie, Eric Krupke, Alex Stern, and Olivia Knapp. [31:56] by Rachel Quester and Rob Zipko, with help from Mark George. Contains music by Marian Lozano, Rowan Emisto, Brad Fisher, and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. [32:22] That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro.

[32:26] See you tomorrow. [32:33] I'm Gilbert Cruz. This week on the Book Review Podcast, author and classicist Madeline Miller gives us a primer on The Odyssey. They are flawed characters who try and fail and try again, who get angry and make mistakes. Plus, Times critic at large, Tony Scott, on all the genres inside The Odyssey. It has tons of its own action, some of which is quite gory. Is it a sexy story? Well, yes, it is. Listen to the Book Review wherever you get your podcasts. Isn't that beautiful?