EPISODE 54: "REBEL CANNERS" feat. Shaad D'Souza *PREVIEW — FULL EP ON PATREON*

[00:00] I love going online. I love going on X.com. So do you guys see that viral post recently? Posh Bimbo from Islington, who accidentally made, like, 10 of, like, the best-selling songs of all time. Do you know what Live Bible is? Of course I know what Live Bible is. What questions did you do with Kieran F.S. Reynolds about Pitchfuck? I just want the same one. I felt that they were not giving D-Blood his due to the point that I thought that I was being gaslit. Doing an interview is just, like, a random... It's, like, an objectively random thing to do. I mean, I bet Home and Garden pays so much money, but what? [00:30] hey y'all it's james ferraro with a special message on behalf of the clout farm podcast just finna gonna have to pop out to let y'all know the audio from this episode got fried but the lads did their best to repair the camera audio and share this interview with a wickedly [01:00] That's a low-key steezy. Renegade production now.

[01:30] When she's high on my lips. A lot of people on the internet being crazy are probably like teenagers who just like are in class and really yelled. [01:38] like when the, when the ASAP Rocky shit came out, there's this like podcast Edison too, with these two like kind of young lads from Leeds. They're like so hyped. The last one came out when we were in primary school. And I was like, God damn, like people are like the cultural gatekeepers are, [01:53] So the last one came around like 2019. [01:58] So how old would they be? So they're like literally like 18 years old. Or like 17 years old. What podcast is this? It's called The Scorching Hot Takes. [02:10] That sounds really awesome. It sounds like it's got a bit of like an MD Foodie Boys. Yeah. They're really, I guess, I guess honestly, I probably just like see quite often me when I was that age in them. Because they're just like, you know, they'll be like greatest I've ever. [02:28] on the ground and eco, you know, it's just like, [02:30] It's just like, go ahead. It's cool to behave like that. What are some of the other recent sculching of our takes? I think they recently write the Smiths discography. They recently write Geese's discography. That's three albums. Yeah, and both of them was like either three or four. [02:49] And there were there were all of videos which I watched all of. Wait, are they like also like propping up this kind of like newish canon where like Tyler, the creator is considered like a generational artist, like a like a Western. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Right.

[03:02] Those are the people doing the... Yes. But, you know, there's two problems, right? It's like that and like the black country, neuro black midi sphere. Yeah. They're both like extremely kind of overinflated in... [03:13] the kind of like [03:14] eyes and ears of everyone under like 24. Yeah. [03:17] See, that's maybe where I guess I have to contradict what I said earlier, because that shit really... And I know to ensure that I shouldn't, I should just rise above, because I know I understand the forces at play, i.e. it's fucking like 12-year-olds, like... [03:29] glazing this shit, but like when I see fucking like Flower Boy being like put next to like a Marvin Gaye album or something, it genuinely like drives me fucking insane. [03:39] Yeah, but I mean, that's just like radio music culture or whatever, like Fantano fans or whatever, right? Like those people are all like so, so young. [03:51] And like, haven't... [03:53] just like haven't heard any music and like don't really care to hear any music, which I think it probably like a cool. It's more like how you have to be when you're like 15. Kind of. [04:04] I was never obnoxious at any point in my life, so I'm afraid I can't close on that. Totally, totally. I can see that in the game. So you don't see any validity in like, [04:14] a 20-year-old taking an album like flower boy really seriously no because they're wrong but you were big on future guys so like you have dude i'll stand my bastard i'm not gonna take this bait i'm not a burger it's fine but that's you know it's to do with your age right how dare you yeah obviously it's just like it's just a symptom of just of just being like cranky and like 47 years old and getting pissed off at

[04:39] people not instead putting on writing space, whatever. But what about like someone having those feelings about like a La Mattel Ray record? [04:47] uh vlana has her place and you don't think tyler does i think he does have his place uh i just disagree with the place that he's getting this time well actually there was a writer who i say who's in the room who made a kind of good argument about this about how what's emerged is this kind of [05:04] in between class of mediocre, like tasteful music, which is allowed to be seen [05:11] as better than like capital P-pop, which kind of like undervalued a lot of like [05:20] genuine indie shit are you referencing my dream journal again no i'm referencing i'm referencing the shard de cousa nyt piece about the pop middle parts do you want to expand on that do you want to summarize this this piece that's available online well so yeah i mean it's kind of a random piece because i feel like you got referenced a lot and then a lot of the artists that i was talking about who were once like toiling away in this kind of like mid zone kind of like really [05:50] idea that like on the internet there's all these people making pop music that's like very reverent of and and referential to kind of like pop's history but who are not like actually popular or particularly successful. So like the quintessential this was written in like 2022 and so at that time the kind of like quintessential stars of that world would have been people like

[06:18] Zara Larson or Carly Rae Jepsen or like, you know, and like I referenced like Sabrina Carpenter as well in that piece. Obviously, Zara Larson is kind of blowing up. I like Sabrina Carpenter has. But basically just this idea that like, it was like a pop eating itself kind of thing of like, because they're only drawing reference from past heroes of pop music, like it will stay on this like middle zone. Yeah. But I think like the thing of like Tyler and Lana is like interesting because like they are... [06:46] kind of like on the kind of like Gen Z, Mount Rushmore, right? And like, not just in terms of like how they're viewed, but also in terms of like, [06:54] You know, like Lana... [06:56] has announced like stadium runs for like, like a week in advance and sold them all out, like in places in Europe or like in D markets in America and stuff like that. [07:09] They're actually really just like so, so popular. [07:13] Or like last year, she played like two Wembleys and played entirely like only new music that, you know, just like random stuff like that. [07:22] Um, so I think it is interesting that there is this like kind of world of people who are kind of like only like they're not on the charts or whatever, which is different to the middle class pop stars thing or pops middle class is actually how I put it. [07:37] But like... [07:38] Yeah, I don't really know what I'm talking about. I think maybe I misinterpreted you a little bit because I thought maybe you were talking about [07:46] I don't know, a band like Magdalena Bay, who kind of don't really

[07:51] push the boat out, but they have this kind of like very acclaimed image because they can do it like [07:58] tasteful pop thing like very concretely yeah yeah i'm i don't know i mean they could kind of work in this that to me is like super like that is like the most core radio music band yeah of all time like the way that they are glazed on the internet is so crazy to me i think they're kind of good sometimes i think they've got like a couple of hits that's [08:26] um but they're kind of like interesting to me for like other reasons they're kind of interesting to me because they were a prog band and then they accidentally went to a charlie acx concert and decided that pop music had value and started making pop music which i think is one of the craziest like origin stories that could possibly happen but um yeah i mean but then also there is a kind of thing of like [08:51] everything is like drifting towards pop like more and more these days, which I think is its own kind of VN thing, like almost definitely bad. Like even in like experimental music, like, yeah, everything like has definitive hooks now and like, [09:09] everyone's like referencing a lot of pop music or whatever um and then there's also the thing of like [09:16] of like Spotify for like, you know, like stream music or whatever. And they all kind of like, they're I think they're all like all these systems that are just like go hand in hand.

[09:25] yeah it's also it's so true because it feels like now since you would have written that it feels like we're kind of at the like meta stage of that where like a band like [09:35] like Smurfs kind of [09:38] do do the kind of like you know contemporary art gallery version of of the like maxelina babe thing obviously you know like not they're not downstream of that or anything but you know just in terms of like who listens like who it's for and kind of like how it's received yeah although smiths have always made music that kind of sounds like this no for sure yeah i guess i would say maybe that's why they've like blown up now totally obviously yeah and also the the new [10:08] So, [10:08] like just like is so it's crazy like people don't like write songs that sound that like good and timeless and amazing anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but but yeah, I do think there's a thing of like, there's definitely a lot of people. [10:23] who are clearly really wanting to only listen to pop music, but feel maybe because of the milieu they're in, that they have to find the things that kind of scratch that itch without it being actual pop music, which is like funny. Yeah. Um, it must be like a horrible prison to be, to be living in. Yeah. It's, it's such a weird, it's a very weird like environment or the idea that, and that kind of ties into like, sorry to cut you, sorry, your website or something, but like it ties into this thing of like,

[10:53] progression anyone would want would be to be like a big pop star like everyone's like oh Erica D'Cassie when's she gonna have her like big pop moment or whatever and it's like she doesn't want that she doesn't want [11:03] to be like she she said before like she doesn't want to be famous enough to be recognized in Copenhagen like yeah you know so she doesn't want that at all but that's relatable yeah totally so you don't you don't think that the new jeans thing was her doing like a senorita or anything you know what I mean well I mean I'm sure she was well uh uh say more um [11:27] I don't know, I guess how like... [11:31] Well, like Charlie Ryan, Senorita kind of bought her the time to like develop her ideas so that like when she was like ready to do them, she could have like the audience. [11:45] Senorita was like what, like 2019? Like Charlie had already written like 10 like mega hits for like pop stars before that. No, right. If she'd done it, if she'd done it as like her song, it kind of would have like thrown the sound off her as this kind of like. [11:58] art school type, right? [12:00] I don't think so because she was already like kind of like chart aspirin. Like she had already been in the charts like way before that. She's pretty explicit about it. Yeah. And like it was and she was never, um, [12:14] I don't think she was ever trying to be particularly underground. It was just like following what she was kind of interested in. It sounds like an incredible year. Yeah. And, and also I think like kind of swings back against like whatever she is at the time. So like she kind of had this weird chart hit with that song, boom clap. And so then she started making really abrasive music and then kind of like it has just kept going back and forth in that way. Yeah. And all the while been kind of like right in father artists,

[12:44] stuff. [12:45] But I think with Super Shy it's like [12:49] I'm sure if you're a writer, it's really exciting to want to do that. And also, that seems like a really good way to set yourself up with lots of money so that you don't have to become famous and sell yourself and do whatever. Like annoying dances on TikTok and try and turn your song into a trend or whatever. Yeah, yeah. [13:08] It's funny that like Eureka de Cassier's [13:10] Not to like over fixate on her specifically, but I guess I will. Like at first point, her writing, I guess, like resonates. [13:20] with people in the way that it apparently does. I will say that I'm like super shy. Like I feel like that was like the platonic ideal, like the best case scenario of like an Erica, like constructs. Like I think it like worked incredibly well, but I often find her lyrics to be like, [13:33] On her like solo music to be like... [13:36] for lack of a minute, I'm kind of like cringe and like clunky and poorly phrased. And it like really like takes me out of like the like beautiful, like lush, like instrumentation. I think the Lukes really work on the first album so well. And then for me, since then it's kind of been like... [13:52] much more of the same to diminishing returns. [13:58] But I know what you mean. There's the kind of like sexy 90s R&B thing that, [14:06] that [14:08] Like a lot of those artists like did really kind of like grow and change and stuff. And like, I don't really see her music as having changed all that significantly, except in it getting a bit worse. Yeah.

[14:21] But also it's funny, like... [14:24] Like I've been listening to Dido's second album a lot. [14:28] You guys familiar? Life for Rant? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, incredible record. I was, like, a lot of those songs just sound like Erika D'Ocasio, like, and just, like, pop music just, like, sounded like that. [14:38] them... [14:39] And it was seen as like really like shit and meaningless and whatever. [14:44] And I think it's just been, it's just been like weird. I've been finding it really, [14:50] It's like a trip. [14:51] I don't really like, I don't have much sense of the way she was [14:56] like, received in her time. It's crazy. I've been reading old interviews in, like, Q and Rolling Stone and stuff, and they almost all describe her as this kind of, like, idiot who stumbled into, like, you know, these huge hits. There's multiple... [15:14] written interviews where they describe her accent as classless, like from entirely different publications. It's like so bizarre, but they basically just thought she was this kind of like... [15:24] posh bimbo from Islington who accidentally made... [15:28] like 10 of the best selling songs of all time. It's really crazy. [15:33] Um, the... [15:35] Yeah, that album's so good. Wait, who was it that put her on a crazy feature? Eminem. [15:42] No, no, no. [15:46] Yo, that feature was crap. Yeah, I was freaking my crap. [15:51] Yo, that Tino verse on that fucking Eminem, Zoe. You heard that tonight?

[15:57] Um... [15:58] So is it what it seems to say that she's that she is being kind of like reappraised among like a certain? No, I don't think so. I've just been listening to it. [16:06] i mean maybe i don't think that well i don't think that well also i i wonder if the i like i wonder if the kids know about dido right like i think i i think well one i think that caroline polichick record probably wasn't like big enough to like spark any significant reappraisal because otherwise i think maybe also dido is kind of like a recluse and like doesn't tour and doesn't release music and stuff so i i wonder i think they should i think they're kind of like good and should be [16:36] I know that there's like an EDM remix of one of her songs that is maybe like big in the clubs or something. Damn. Because on her Spotify, it's like her number one song. [16:47] I don't think there's been any significant effort to like rehabilitate data's image. [16:52] Yeah. [16:52] Yeah, I think I often get like, I get it warped because we're in the kind of like, the kind of like other Joe world that we inhabit. It's always, there's always been this like... He's in our world, but yeah, no shit. Yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean? The kind of like 30 year old guy head. [17:10] has always kind of liked that kind of like our full production. And obviously, [17:15] just been able to appreciate it for what it is. Yeah. Dido got remixed a lot in SoundCloud world. Exactly. Yeah. That's, there's like Alex Compton, Dido remix, right? The mic. Is that what I'm thinking of? The mic, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

[17:30] Do you feel like [17:32] There's scope for pop music to get as kind of weird as it did when Bjork was really popular in like the mid 90s. Do you think there would be appetite for that again? [17:42] Thank you. [17:43] *sniff* [17:45] And when I say weird, weird's quite like a malleable tone. I know what I mean. But I mean weird in the sense that I guess perhaps artful is like a better way to get at it because I think actually culture is pretty weird nowadays because of the internet. Whereas with Bjork, it's pre-internet, but it is something that's very, I guess, artful is a pretty good way of describing it. [18:03] Yeah, I don't know. But I'm like... [18:07] I don't really know because I think part of it is that [18:13] thing of like... [18:16] Thank you. [18:18] Thank you. [18:19] I guess, like, do you mean, like, could someone, like, truly random and crazy, like, get big on the charts? Pretty much. I don't know. Sorry, that's like... No, no, there's a foul answer. I think there's people doing things that are, like, really idiosyncratic. [18:37] that they're doing themselves that is popular. So I guess like conceptually, like if you consider it artful for someone to do something that's like auteurist or whatever, then yeah, but not, I think probably not anything that sounds like genuinely avant-garde, probably. [18:55] But I don't know, like, because any of the examples I would give would sound traditionally pop. Yeah. But, like, I think that, like, what Lana was doing on her last record is, like, really crazy and extremely...

[19:13] um specific and i think the fact that like that was kind of like her biggest record ever is like [19:19] Quite... Quite crazy. Yeah. Um... She's essentially like beast freestyling. Yeah, well, she's... And like, Jack Anson has done interviews where he said like he knows... [19:29] That, like, anything he wants done to the track, he has to, like... [19:34] basically do it in the room on the day because she basically kind of like rocks up, free associates into the microphone, [19:41] And then it's like no edits, no changes. She was like, no, the song is done. I'm going to put it out. Yeah. Like, you know, [19:47] Um, yeah, I do think the way that she like operates and lives is kind of just as avant-garde as Bjork to me. [19:53] I would agree. But also, I've never been like a Vyork guy. I've always just found it annoying. With some exceptions, like I thought her latest record was like really fun to listen to. And like a couple of the like 2000s records, I think are cool. [20:09] But I'm also just like, it's annoying to- Yeah. I find it annoying to listen to. Right. And the people living inside the TV interviews [20:18] don't do it for you either what do you mean have you seen this like very famous clip where she's talking about getting a tv for the first time and that she feels like there's kind of like people living inside the tv talking to her no everyone's seen it but see that annoying that pisses me off yeah yeah the og nice like the original like cassie from skins like yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure [20:43] But it's interesting because I think perhaps also...

[20:46] I'm asking this question, but [20:48] when I'm talking about Bjork, I think perhaps I'm also talking about a level of fame that doesn't quite exist in the same way because you think of Bjork, you think of like a moment like when she attacked that journalist and like the level of fervor she would have had around that. Or she used to like guest present episodes of Top of the Pops and things like that. She's really like, you know, at a time when there was like much, in a sense, a lot fewer media channels, she was like front and center on those in a way that like [21:14] Now things are so diffuse, like it's much more difficult for someone like Lola to have that presence. [21:20] So I wonder if it's not quite possible to capture it. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it's that sense of like someone, yeah, because there's no monoculture. So it's like, [21:30] even like the most famous weird people [21:33] are still just the most famous weird people. Like the only person who like you can't really opt out of [21:39] He's like Taylor Swift. Yeah. And like everyone else, you can basically decide not to care about them. I feel like you kind of just about can opt out of Taylor Swift. Like I don't... Right. I don't know... [21:50] I actually don't know how any of the songs from her last record went. I don't think I've knowingly heard one. [21:55] No, totally. [21:57] And, but I mean like culturally, like you kind of like hearing about her. I can't not see her. Yeah, exactly. Where it's like almost anyone else you can decide to know nothing about them and know nothing about them. Yeah, I came to the Zara Larsson party like incredibly late, like a couple of months ago. Yeah, it's like not a party worth being at. This is kind of what I was confused about. Yeah, I was like, why are people so excited about this? What is she selling?

[22:22] it's it's just like straight up bad pop music like it's just straight up bad i think yeah it was she kind of like love island music vibes before the pink hunter i said i guess so yeah it was it's like it's like it's like feature on a clean bandit song okay yeah that type thing uh and then she had that this song last year midnight sun that's kind of like jersey club vibes a little bit that everyone said was like crazy experimental but it's like right um but and then now she's on [22:52] - I think Jayla did that like 10 years ago. [22:54] Missy Elliot did it probably. I mean, again, you're forgetting you're 47. It's probably like 20 years ago. No, I'm actually 47. [23:02] Would that surprise you? [23:03] Should I leave the room? It would surprise us. It's like the last ageist outburst from Shad. It could be. I wonder how old are they? [23:12] You've been listening to a free preview of the Clout Farm podcast. Go to patreon.com slash cloutfarm to unlock the full epi. [23:24] Bye.