Kawhi in Flux, Embiid’s Next Team, Jaylen vs. Advanced Numbers, and a Mini-Mailbag With Joe House

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by TikTok. Did you know you can use TikTok to connect even more with the sports you love? It's not just highlights, it's everything around the game, including the sports community. Find breakdowns of classic basketball plays, deep dives on baseball stats, even videos on how athletes train and recover. [00:17] There are people teaching strategy, sports, history, even ways to improve your jump shot. [00:22] It's kind of like the biggest locker room ever and everyone's sharing what they know. [00:26] on TikTok. [00:28] . [00:33] The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. We're also brought to you by The Ringer. [00:39] Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Ali. [00:44] Will Smith, Michael Mann, our ninth Michael Mann movie. That was me and Chris Ryan and Ben Latham. Next movie we have, it's the 30th anniversary of, [00:52] of an Ed Burns movie called She's the One. [00:55] That is a very important Gen X movie. And, uh, [00:58] We've been talking about doing this forever. So it is me and Sean Fantasy because it's a Long Island movie and a special guest who's not on the podcast too often. [01:07] So we are doing that. That is on Netflix if you want to watch that one. [01:10] And then the next movie we're doing after that is Hitch with Will Smith, which is also on Netflix. [01:16] So there you go. You can find this podcast on Netflix. If you do, Netflix has my list. If you just click the my list, every time I have a new podcast, it will pop onto your Netflix algorithm and the. [01:28] much more exciting way. So wanted to pass that along. I also have a podcast coming. We're going to go live on Sunday on Netflix. Not sure of the time yet, but stay tuned for that. And I think I'm only doing the Sunday podcast, probably taking a couple of,

[01:43] stays off next week unless something crazy happens, you know, like, [01:47] Kawhi Leonard's trade being postponed, which we're going to talk about in one second with Joe House. House and I, we talked about Kawhi at the top. [01:55] We talked about Jalen versus analytics. Could Joel Embiid be traded? And would anyone even want him? And then we did a whole mailbag. And all of that is coming up next, right after we take a break. And here, Pearl Jam. [02:08] This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. [02:11] You know a clutch move when you see one, a no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet [02:17] could pull off moves like that. [02:19] That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now, you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viator. And save offers before you check out [02:29] earn unlimited rewards. Plus, you can add those rewards on top of credit card points, [02:34] Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. [02:37] Save those offers, start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms/credit card points subject to issuers. [02:48] terms and conditions. [02:50] all right house this part of the podcast is 12 15 we just

[03:20] our podcast and then as we finished Gahal told us that there was breaking news in the NBA. [03:26] It was the Toronto Raptors saying that their trade for Kawhi Leonard is on hold. [03:31] According to the statement, [03:33] They said the NBA League office informed us [03:35] that as a result of the ongoing investigation by them the Clippers, we would assume the risk [03:40] of any potential outcome of the investigation impacting Kauai. [03:44] In light of this, we will wait until the league's investigation is complete. The Raptors remain eager to bring Kawhi back to Toronto and look forward to a swift resolution for our players, our organization, our fans. [03:55] So we actually talked about this in the podcast before. I'll just leave it in so we can hear, because Conspiracy Bill came out. [04:04] What does this mean? [04:07] I have no idea. I mean, the league office is doing informing. The league office is responsible. This trade happened a week ago. How much more time do they need? What are we getting to the bottom of at this point? But this seems to indicate that Kawhi could be suspended. [04:24] It suggests that there could be Kawhi consequences. This is asinine. What is the fucking league doing? The league is responsible for the outcome and whatever pronouncement it wants to make. The teams are permitted to do business. [04:40] Obviously not. A condition... [04:44] Why did the league say, you're not allowed to do to trade or do anything until we finish our investigation? Right. Why didn't the league do that? You tell me. What is the point of this communication now?

[04:56] This is ominous. How about this? Finish the fucking investigation. I know, but it's the independents. [05:02] July the 9th. [05:04] Who cares? [05:05] There aren't any more witnesses to be interviewed. There aren't any more fucking documents to be reviewed. It's been an eight month investigation. Months after months after months. You know how many lawyers and how much fees is being generated by this? Baby doll thinks it's a money grab. [05:25] Who thinks it's a money grab? Well, this is the first time... [05:28] All of us thought the Clippers were going to get penalized. This is the first time it feels like... [05:34] Kawaii, [05:36] might also be punished in this. There's no other way to interpret this. [05:41] That also really seems out there because the collective bargaining agreement gives the league the right to punish a player for agreeing to... [05:53] an arrangement with a sponsor. [05:56] Where the sponsor says. Well, but this means there's more stuff that maybe hasn't come out yet. [06:02] There's something... [06:06] This insinuates... [06:08] that Kawhi could be suspended for a year, six months or whatever. And the team didn't know that when they traded for him. [06:14] Because they couldn't assume the risk of any potential outcome. [06:18] It's like the Raptors would assume the Clippers risk. No, you're right. Clippers are fine. But now that they have Kawhi, Toronto will have to be penalized. Like,

[06:27] This has to be Kawhi related. But what you're absolutely right. What what is the scenario under which Kawhi is individually culpable for something that that is outside the bounds of the league's rules on this? What did Kawhi and is this the they want to do something to Uncle Dennis? [06:47] I don't understand it. What could he do? Like if, if the sponsor was Coca-Cola and, [06:52] And Coca-Cola has an agreement with the Clippers and has an agreement with the league and does sponsorships and says, we also want you, Kawhi Leonard, to be a spokesperson for Coca-Cola. And we're not going to make you come do anything for you. [07:06] You know, it doesn't work out. The circumstances don't work out. We can't, you know, it turns out you can't, you couldn't make any of his appearances. [07:12] The player can be punished for that? [07:15] I think they should go further. I think they should postpone the Jalen Brown trade. [07:19] I think all transactions should be postponed until we get to the bottom of this. Jalen Brown is back at the Celtics. [07:27] That would be incredible. I'm rooting for that. This is anything else. I'm really shocked by this. I'm dumbfounded. So this makes me think that, um, [07:39] There's a full Clippers statement as well. [07:42] I hope it says the league can go fuck itself. The Clippers... [07:47] - Acknowledge, this is from Mark Stein, our buddy, the Clippers acknowledge that the Kawhi investigation is ongoing, but we expect the trade to be finalized [07:56] Following its conclusion. So was Adam Silver like on vacation last week? Where was he? Why didn't he tell them you can't trade Kawhi until we finish the investigation? Sorry, everybody. Right, no shit.

[08:06] Does he not have the day that free agency and, you know, the transaction market opened up on his calendar? Poorly handled. As usual. What the fuck? [08:15] Why are we talking about that on July the night? I was busy last week getting offers for our 12 NBA Europe teams and didn't realize Kawhi was traded. [08:23] my bad we have to assume the risk [08:30] You assume the risk. It's your risk. It's the league's risk. Eat a dick. [08:35] Not assuming shit. [08:37] Why can't Toronto and the Clippers make a deal? Why? So we could have Garland... [08:42] Wagner, Kawai, [08:45] Rui, [08:47] My guy Yannick. Keep Kawhi. Cancel the trade. Keep him. [08:53] But yeah, they got two firsts and two swaps. [08:56] It's a good deal. [08:59] Wow house. All right. We're, we'll find out what happened with this. But, um, in the meantime, [09:04] Let's go backwards an hour and 40 minutes to the rest of our podcast. [09:08] Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. [09:11] For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [09:18] Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphia, proper training is required.

[09:41] of Crohn's disease, and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit trimphiaradio.com. [10:12] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We're in the heart of the FIFA World Cup 26. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. The stakes are just this high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra, from the pitch to the poor, superior is worth playing [10:42] World Cup 2-6. [10:44] Michelob Ultra of FIFA World Cup 26, Superior Access. [10:48] No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends? [10:54] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit www.mickeleobultra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [11:07] All right, we're recording this on Thursday morning, about 10 hours before the big DeBonta-Peterson summer league game.

[11:15] I love how every year we forget that Summer League doesn't matter. [11:18] It's one of my favorite things when everybody gets carried away with all of this stuff. [11:23] It matters because it's our first look and it's our, our, you know, there, there is genuine appropriate excitement. I will say that at least here in Washington, I encourage everybody to keep expectations in the appropriate level. Like let's just be calm, cool and collected about it. Remember poor Alexander Sarr when he came out and went, you know, over 15 in his first summer league game. Not a bust. [11:52] And whatever happens between Peterson and DeBansa tonight, it doesn't set the referendum for the rest of their careers. And by the way, we knew Peterson was incredibly talented and the most talented guy in the class. That wasn't the reason he went second instead of first. There were... [12:09] Red flags last year. And, you know, I thought he was one of the hardest guys to peg ever. But, man, you watch the Summer League games, you're like, oh, no. I've been taking a lot of bullets. I've been catching a lot of strays. He's already stopped starting. House, the Wizards, Peterson. And Peterson's going to look great tonight against the Wizards. Peterson's going to look. Breaking news. He might just look great. [12:30] He might have just gone to the perfect team. [12:33] Might be the right city, right organization, right coach, and he might be awesome. [12:37] And everybody knew that that was very possible. All right. I have a whole agenda for us today. [12:42] Amazingly, we're doing more Jalen Brown content, but not for the reasons people think.

[12:48] We are also going to talk about Joel Embiid. [12:51] and whether he might be on another team next year. And then I have a whole mailbag for you. But I wanted to talk. The old guys have been watching all this advanced metric stuff. [13:02] coming out of the Jalen Brown trade. [13:05] And you and I have kind of straddle the fence. I'm a little more advanced metrics friendly than you, but both of us are... [13:11] I test common sense guys as well. [13:14] Just deep diving everything from this Jalen trade for the last 10 days, I just can't believe [13:20] how bad he looks in the advanced metrics stuff. [13:24] And it's almost like I find myself going back over all the games I watched and all the Celtics seasons I took in and all the playoff games. [13:33] and just wondering to myself, did I get this wrong? And then I landed on, no, I don't think I got this wrong. I think there are some reasons for some of these stats. [13:40] You haven't come on and talked about this yet since the trade. [13:44] Since your colonoscopy. Since the colonoscopy. Yeah, by the way, thank you for that. [13:49] Success. Great job by you. I'm glad we raised awareness for colonoscopies, by the way. We've talked about it a bunch of times. Go get one. Not that hard. As many as you're allowed to get. I recommend them. But yeah, so... [14:00] eye tests going big picture on, as you're watching the dialogue about this, where everybody has now apparently decided, Jalen Brown is actually not an efficient player. [14:09] Um, there's, if, if he's your number one guy, you don't have a chance to win the title. All that. Like, where do you stand with all this? [14:16] I mean, right out of the box...

[14:19] I reject the framing. I don't reject... [14:22] analytics. I think they are great. They are super helpful. It's information. It's a really interesting way of trying to measure guys against one another when their situations and contexts are so disparate. Like how can you measure Jalen Brown's effectiveness against Jalen Brunson's effectiveness? Well, there's some ways to slice it and dice it. All of that is fine. I don't reject [14:52] this Boston Celtics team was in a transition year. [14:57] The anticipated number of wins, what was their win total? Was it 41, 42? 41 and a half. [15:02] Yeah, right. So that's where, you know, the markets were anticipating. It was hard to say what kind of season this team was going to have. And then through the combination of Joe Mazzullo, [15:15] And the front office, I give them credit. [15:18] And Jalen fucking Brown, they won 56 fucking games because he is that guy. He is that dog. He took the standard and made all of those guys. I'm going to say this without trying to disrespect the rest of the Celtics roster in the most recently completed season. But he took a bunch of bums to 56 wins. And you know how I know they're bums? Because he got rolled right the fuck out of the playoffs. [15:48] You were up against a proper test in terms of a team with talent at all levels. And, you know, the front court for the Boston Celtics this entire season was the development of Nemius Keita. Wonderful. Great job. A++. Two thumbs up. Shireman, Hugo, more Pritchard. Development, development, development. Great. That was the point of the season.

[16:18] immediately, remember, again, it was just two and a half months ago. Boston was forecasted as a potential team to not only make the Eastern Conference Finals, but to make it to the NBA Finals out of the East, right when the playoffs started. They had the second best odds because the expectation around what they were capable of with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, a track record [16:48] together. A slew of Eastern Conference finals, two NBA finals, an NBA championship. [16:55] that Jalen Brown was the MVP of. So I don't mind at all going inside the box and saying, well, how do we sort of measure the impact going forward? But here's the thing that I ask you, and I wonder about for Celtics Nation, [17:10] Why did they give up on this season? How can you come into this upcoming season when you've done the thing that was most important, which is bring in Mitchell Robinson? Yeah, an absolute rebounding miracle of a man. Single handedly. [17:27] contributed to, [17:28] That rebounding role to the Knicks, to a vaulted them right to a championship. You bring that in. Your most dire need. You've addressed it with a guy who's absolutely. And then healthy Tatum. And healthy Tatum. And we know, we have 10 years of evidence that those two guys, plus Mitchell Robinson, plus whatever else the front office could do. That's a team that looks to me like a possible Eastern Conference finalist, possible NBA finalist. And we punt.

[17:58] What's the why did we punt? Why do why did the front office give up on this Celtics team? [18:04] You know, there's a lot to unpack here. You gave me a lot there. And I do want to circle back in the advanced metrics. You're talking about overreacting to a bad result in the playoffs, which I think Minnesota did too. [18:16] Minnesota did that Lamello trade. I talked about it when it happened. They were banged up last year, right? Edwards got hurt right before the playoffs. It wasn't 100%. Steve Vincenzo got hurt during the first round. [18:28] Io got hurt. [18:30] And I just feel like they decided, well, we don't have a chance anymore based on what the playoff results were, so we have to take a big swing. [18:39] I agree with it. It's funny hearing people remember what they remember, right? [18:44] about the Philly series. [18:46] Which basically came down to three games. Game two, game five, and game seven. [18:51] And in game two, Brown and Tatum actually played pretty well. It was the guards... [18:55] I think Pritchard, White, and Vucevic were like two for 20 from three in that game. [18:59] and we just couldn't hit a shot, the pace was off. Philly was, I think, 19 for 39 from three, they stole the game, it's fine. They're up 3-1, they go into game five, [19:09] They're up double figures in game five. Do you remember what happened in the second half of game five? [19:14] I don't. [19:15] Embiid fucking killed them. [19:17] Oh, yeah, that. [19:19] Embiid killed them and it came out of nowhere. And it was, you know, this was this, [19:24] crazy thing that got introduced during the series where all of a sudden you have

[19:28] 2023 MVP Joel Embiid just looking like Joel Embiid again. [19:33] In the second half of that game, [19:35] He shoots seven for 10 and four from four from three is 18 points. [19:41] Um, [19:42] And Max is five for eight and they just play better and they steal the game. Right. [19:46] Game seven, Tatum doesn't play. [19:48] Right. Tatum gets scratched. [19:50] And they do that crazy starting lineup to whatever. And, [19:54] I don't know. I didn't mind the way Jalen played in that game. I thought the reasons they lost the series, because White and Pritchard didn't shoot three, well, the Vucevic thing was a terrible experiment. [20:04] I don't hang that series on Jalen at all. So anyway, they overreact to it. You asked why they did this. [20:09] And I've talked to a bunch of people, and I know I've talked about it on the pod a bunch of times, but [20:15] It feels like they felt like there was no going back after Jalen had a taste of being the guy on the team last year. [20:22] And that whatever they were going to do with this team this year, [20:25] With his contract, he wasn't going to get the extension from them at the end of July. [20:30] And did this have a chance to actually go sideways? [20:34] And I think... [20:35] Whether you agree with it or not, I think they evaluated this as like... [20:39] This isn't going in the right direction. The Tatum-Brown thing's been weird for two years. There's been a lot of dialogue about that, about... [20:46] Can you play with somebody you don't get along with? [20:49] I don't know if they got along or didn't get along. I know they didn't hang out. [20:52] But I also know that they had an unbelievable nine-year run together. [20:57] Yeah. That they played more playoff games together than anybody. They won a title in 2024. I just don't think this was like a kid Mashburn and Jimmy Jackson situation.

[21:06] But what I do think is that they were concerned that there was no going back with Jalen. [21:12] And that after being the guy that, [21:15] And now, hey, thanks for being the guy, but now Tatum is going to be the guy again. [21:19] And we're not going to give you an extension that they thought it was going to go sideways and they got ahead of it. [21:24] Well, I don't agree with it. That's a confession. That means, you know, for all the accolades that we've heaped on the Boston front office for a long time, [21:34] Um, [21:35] a move like this suggests that they can't, [21:39] present and maintain peace inside the locker room. There is an inability to manage your personnel. And it's not... It's not a managing thing, though. You're talking about two guys making... [21:54] 60 million a year, and the coach who's making 10% of that combined, as his voice is only going to go so far, this is a league over and over again when the superstars run the league. [22:06] It's not just his voice, though. But if the two superstars... So this is... The voice thing's important, because... [22:13] Obviously, Chisholm bought the team. He's only in the team for like a year and a half. [22:16] I do wonder if Wick was the owner of the team and hadn't sold. [22:21] I do wonder if he would have handled it differently. [22:25] And I'm not saying he would have been the hero of it, but would he have been like, wait a second? [22:29] Let's all get together. We got to figure that, Rick, really? This is, that's one piece. And then the other piece is- People murdered you for the restaurant concept, but that is exactly what was called for. I mean, people- What people murdered me? Who are these people?

[22:44] I enjoyed it so much, but you know- I was trying to be funny, but it was also true. Like, get these guys in a fucking room. That's right. Everybody get in a room and have out whatever you have to have out. [22:59] guys as as your your focal points of getting to the eastern conference finals and possibly the nba finals every year that the two of them arrive to the playoffs healthy and this year what was you know it was forecasted to be a potential repeat really out of nowhere there was no reason whatsoever for that and it really was 56 games and it really was [23:24] Adobe Philly series. [23:26] There's never been a situation like that where somebody just comes back midway through the series, plays well for... [23:32] three games, basically, and then immediately goes back to not being an effective player again. And then they get swept by the Knicks. Well, it was also the kryptonite of the Boston roster because the Boston roster was an in-development roster. It wasn't anticipated that it was going to be a team that was going to win between 55 and 60 games and win its division and make a long run into the playoffs. They did. They overachieved by 50 games. Nobody in the front court. That's why Embiid had the success he had. They couldn't defend him. [24:00] Well, we couldn't make threes either. The... [24:03] So the old guy conversation, there's two things going on. The advanced metrics are bad for Jalen. [24:08] And this is something I've been trying to wrap my head around for a week. I've mailed you. [24:12] I mailed you a... [24:14] There's 85 guys ever. I went on StatHead.

[24:18] Thanks to StatHead, by the way. I've always enjoyed it. Great job. Great job. There's 85 guys ever. [24:24] who averaged at least 28 points a game with a 30 usage rate. [24:29] And you could put all these different stats, like win shares, Vorp. Vorp is like... [24:34] It's not nothing. I don't. The thing is, I kind of like these stats. I don't think they should be the determiner of a player's value. [24:42] But it's interesting, Jalen's win shares were the worst out of all 85 guys. And we're talking about like World Be Free. [24:49] 1980, Iverson in 05, Mark Aguirre in 1984, like, [24:56] And he's the worst. And then you go to Vorp, which is also not nothing. I don't mind looking at Vorp. Jalen was third to last, and the only two seasons worse than him in Vorp were 2010 Carmelo and 2007 Carmelo. [25:12] And you look at some of the names in this list house, [25:14] And it is interesting. It's all these high usage forwards that never were able to really be, you can never build a finals team around them, right? Dominique. [25:23] Adrian Dantley. [25:25] Um, [25:26] Mark Aguirre, Carmelo, Alex English. [25:29] World be free. You could even build a first round playoff team around him. Donovan Mitchell now. [25:34] But these guys that... [25:38] you could throw a big burden on them, and you could have regular season success. [25:43] But as the levels got higher, that recipe didn't work anymore. And I think that's basically where we landed with Jalen last year. We talked about this, like,

[25:51] Let's go back to just us playing pickup basketball a million years ago. At some point, you have five guys – [25:57] One of those five guys needs to regularly create a good shot for everybody else, right? Just start there. [26:02] Jalen was the only guy who could do that on this team. Pritchard once a week. Oh, he wasn't an offensive engine, though, Bill Simmons. I know. You say create a good shot. I don't know. The stats don't support that. Right. It's like, oh, his effective field goal is down. Well, maybe partly because every time they played anybody, the entire defense was like, we got to stop Jalen. He's going to take 16 twos. He's going to get to the line. Let's throw two guys at him. Let's trap him. Let's attack him when he goes to the rim. [26:32] 71 games, and this is what we've talked about over and over again, [26:36] durability, [26:37] consistency, [26:39] And can you be the hub of something bigger, which he did last year. And I can't accept the advanced metrics. [26:46] Telling me otherwise, because I watched the season. [26:49] Well, not only that, again, I mean this as respectfully as possible. He dragged a bunch of fucking bums to 56 wins. Like he was a really important part in terms of setting a standard. Those guys, the development of Gonzalez and Shireman and Peyton stepping up and Kata. And like this is a team like roster wise that was going to win 41 games. That's what made sense. That was the sensible outcome.

[27:19] that. I'm going to go out, and again, let's also give credit to Missoula, because the game plan also called for a kind of, you know, radical, although not that radical under Celtic circumstances, way of approaching every game. But they conceded nothing. They conceded nothing. They went out and played their ass off every night. They gave it all every night. And he took on the biggest challenge every night. He's the one! Yeah! There's a reason that they all were able to [27:49] One guy took the lead. He took the lead. He was the leader. So I don't care about the efficiency numbers. I don't give a shit. That doesn't help me understand anything about contextually what happened last season. Yeah, there's burden and gravity and there's some... [28:04] He also played his ass off on defense, by the way. That's why the MVP conversation had him featured. Will Bond said with a month left of the regular season that Jalen Brown was his leading contender. Now, whatever you want to say about it. [28:20] They were first in offensive rating for the entire year, and they ended up second. [28:26] Who else were their elite offensive players in this offense? Tatum played 16 games. [28:32] Pritchard, who I love, and I actually think Pritchard could go up a level next year if there's more shots thrown his way, but [28:40] I didn't know whether Pritchard was showing up night to night. He would have games where he just stunk. [28:44] Sure. That's who he is. White was bad shooting-wise all year, even though there's great advanced metrics for him. And then everybody else, you didn't know what they were getting. That tells you. There you go. The advanced metrics for Derek White offensively were very good. They're always good with him, though. He sucked. He sucked. He sucked shooting.

[29:03] He lost his confidence. Yeah, he sucks shooting. I'm talking about his offense. Yeah. He was awesome as a shot. Remember all the money we made betting on the over for his blocks every night? Oh, well, yeah, Fandle finally wised up to that. [29:17] But part of the reason his shooting was down because he had such a big load. I think he wore down as the season went along. And that's another thing. Like when you talk about advanced metrics with somebody like Jalen and it could be Jalen, it could be a bunch of people. [29:30] But the night-to-night showing up [29:33] Playing 36 minutes a game. [29:35] I watched him during the course of the year, guard Kate Cunningham in the last five minutes of games, Luca, Kawhi. Pick a guy, SGA, they threw him on, and he would accept the challenge. I don't know. I just feel like in basketball, you have to have one guy that's like, well, at least we have this guy. They have that guy, but... [29:55] At least we have this guy. We're probably getting 29 to 32 from our guy tonight. And when you don't have that, you're not going to win 56 games. So... [30:03] Um, [30:06] With that said, [30:07] his plus minus, if you go through his career, it's like shocking. I think he might be one of the great advanced metrics outliers in the history of the league, if not number one. [30:18] Every single year, [30:20] The Celtics were basically better with him when he wasn't on the court. And I don't have an explanation for that. And, [30:26] I'm not going to be like, oh, the sets are wrong because obviously they're not. And I was talking to my dad about it because my dad, pre-last season, Jalen went up a level last season. He really got better as a creator and

[30:38] Um, you know, his, he, I thought his, he had less turnovers, even though it doesn't reflect that he had the ball way more. [30:44] But my dad, pre-last season... [30:48] They would have these two five-minute sections when they would take, six-minute sections, they would take Tatum out. [30:52] and Jalen would get to run the offense, [30:54] And my dad would either go to pee or go get a popcorn because he's like, I can't stand this. I hate when it would be like going to a concert and, you know, you're going to see the Rolling Stones. And it's like, oh, now we're going to play the Keith Richards song. You're like, fuck, can't you play Start Me Up? It was like everybody goes to the bathroom. So that was there. And it always felt clumsy when Jalen was in charge of it. But last year was not that clumsy. I'm just telling you. [31:18] Yeah, I think it's fine. [31:21] to look at over the course of the career, [31:26] and point out these vulnerabilities, these frailties to his game. Like a flawed, durable player. Yeah, but we know... [31:35] from the outcomes, what kind of impact he has on winning. Like, right. The, the, the, [31:42] Including the title, the 2024 title. And being the MVP of that team. The MVP, the finals MVP. Well, whatever. I thought Jason should have won that. Enough people saw enough to believe that he earned it. [31:58] Yeah. Well, I wonder, like, do they look at that season... [32:01] Where they superpowered the role players around them, which is impossible now. But they just added Porzingis and Holiday. They had Derek White already. They had Pritchard as a bench guy.

[32:10] Al Horford was still there. And then you have this... [32:13] double forward combo in their mid-20s still. [32:18] Tatum and Brown and both of them were just a lot going downhill shooting threes and maybe that they felt like that was the peak they talked a lot about the. [32:27] in the press conference about the usage [32:30] the usage of the two guys together and the salary cap and, [32:34] I get it. The argument falls apart when you also tried to trade for Giannis and Giannis and Tatum are going to be 70% of your salary cap. Um, [32:43] I will never for the rest of my life understand why they didn't wait to see if this deal was available until September, October. [32:50] Because I think Philly is saying yes on September 1st. [32:53] On September 17th, [32:55] on September 30th. I also feel like whatever happens with Jalen in Philly, [33:01] You can't retroactively go and fit that to your opinion of this trade because I don't know if this is a great situation for him. [33:08] going to his Philly team that's Maxey's team. And then when Embiid comes back, everything revolves. I just don't think his stats are going to be the same. He's going to be. Who cares? [33:17] He's a winner. They're going to win. They're going to be good. [33:20] I love every Sixers future I'm in. The idea of them as 8-1 to win the East. Okay, I'll have a little taste of that. They're 4-1 to win the Atlantic Division behind the Knicks and the Celtics. Well, I think they're going to be motivated this upcoming season. Obviously, the wild card is, do you get 40 games out of Embiid? But those three guys...

[33:43] are really going to help each other. I think it's going to be a really good fit. Like putting good players on the floor, Edgecombe and Maxie and Jalen together, that's good. It's going to work. I'm not worried about that at all. These were other things I was saying heading into the 2018-19 Celtics season when I picked them to win 70 games. [34:04] Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward we're going to be unbelievable and what happened but you could feel it right away and this is what you and I have loved about basketball forever it doesn't always make sense [34:18] Like sometimes you can have a team like that last year Celtics team where it's like we have one guy who can consistently create a shot. [34:24] We have a bunch of other guys. You called them bums, which I let it slide. I think they were young guys, role players. Okay. Whatever. They were all guys that couldn't be top three guys on a team except for white. Um... [34:37] But they figured out [34:38] They figure out how to make it work. And we've seen this over and over again in basketball. There's been teams where the pieces fall into place. [34:45] With Philly, you have a lot of star power and a lot of money. [34:48] You have Embiid, who we're going to talk about after the break, who's [34:52] It's just, you know, I would just be careful with that one. Is it an on-paper team or is it a team that's actually going to play well together? Yeah. [35:01] Paul George, whatever you say about him at this stage of his career, definitely knew he was a complimentary player. [35:06] and could kind of pop it out. [35:08] But he certainly popped in and out. I don't know if Kalen wants to pop in and out at this point. Well, if you're measuring it by how many games did Paul George play, he certainly popped in and then popped out of the entire season. He might have popped some things into his body, too.

[35:23] Yeah, so when we talk about like, [35:26] The usage rate and some of these advanced stats, it... [35:29] Propped me to go on this huge deep dive. [35:32] I did my book from basically 07, 09. We didn't have a lot of these stats. I didn't have access to them. [35:39] And there's stuff that like I would talk, like I was looking at Steve Nash. [35:44] who I had... [35:46] I forget where I had them, but like in the pyramid... [35:48] I think I'm going to move them. [35:50] But I think I had him somewhere in the 30s in the pyramid, and now he was... [35:56] in that cluster of point cards. Steve Nash ran the number one offense in basketball. You can go back now through basically to the mid-90s, and look at all the on-off stats, all the offensive ratings, everything. [36:09] He was the number one offense every year from 2003 to 2010. [36:15] last two years in Dallas, [36:18] His first six Phoenix seasons, no matter who was on the team, they didn't have Amari Stoudemire for all of 06. Didn't matter. They were still number one in offense. [36:27] They were number one in 08 with Shaq when they made that weird Shaq trade. [36:31] They were number one in 09 and 10. [36:34] And another Mark Cuban masterpiece. Well, but then you go and you look at the on off stats for Nash and his, when they, he was off the court those last two years, [36:45] They were better without him, allegedly, according to the stats. That must have been one of the reasons they let him go. [36:49] Anyway, my point is, like, [36:51] I do think some of these stats are great.

[36:53] Um, [36:55] I think Jalen might just be an outlier to some of this stuff. High usage guys on a team that's not that good. That probably should have been like a 42 to 45 win team. [37:05] And for whatever reason, this type of player was able to pull 10 wins out of the regular season. But in the playoffs, it becomes harder. [37:13] Yeah, well, especially with the roster construction that the Celtics had this most recent season. I just think it's a dumb way to try and capture... [37:22] who he is and the impact on the franchise. The only aspect of it to me that, [37:30] has a kind of like, okay, I can see this vibe to it. [37:34] is the extension. If he was really going to get bent out of shape about the extension, if there was something that happened in those conversations. But here's the problem. The Celtics front office did not prepare its fan base in any way, shape or form for anything like this. It was either Giannis coming to the Celtics to join Tatum, or we're going to run it back with JB, and then we'll see what happens over the course of the season. And by the way, running it back [38:04] At the beginning of the season, at least, it's going to be a bunch of wins for the Celtics because Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum together with the cast of characters and inserting Mitchell Robinson into it. They were going to win a bunch of basketball games. And I think that should have helped overall. Like some teams, you know, circumstances change as you get to the beginning of the season. Some teams start underperforming right away. And the best you can do.

[38:28] is right you just wait till december who's unhappy right yeah paul george in july is not the answer like we have [38:36] proof. We know for sure that a GM took a big gamble on Paul George, and that GM is not in the league right now. I'll tell you this. It wasn't the answer, Rick. [38:46] Right after my colonoscopy. [38:50] Yes, it was. [38:51] You know who's the best example of the kind of Jalen season we're talking about where the advanced metrics actually kind of liked it was Iverson. [39:00] Interesting. His 01 season was... [39:03] Where, you know, his usage, everything is like just... [39:07] highest possible caliber, [39:10] And, [39:11] He was... [39:12] On the court was plus 5.7 and his on off was plus 4.1. So it was around the same. [39:17] Now, there's also reasons for that. [39:20] They built that entire team around Allen Iverson. [39:22] every decision they made, every player they put next to him, [39:26] was to help hide him on defense... [39:29] a physical team that can protect him and basically just shoot a shitload of shots and go nuts. You know, and then we get to the playoffs that year. [39:38] And he's basically even on the court and minus five when, when he was, uh, [39:44] Minus five overall in the playoffs. [39:47] Um, where he didn't have a lot of good games and they got a lot of foul help when gets Milwaukee and all that stuff. But, um... [39:54] It is possible to build around a high usage. More likely it works out like it did with Jerry Stackhouse on that 01 Pistons team. Remember when he averaged like 30 a game and they were 32 and 50? That's usually the way it goes. Yeah. What I – I thought the –

[40:10] touch point the reference that that was closest to what i might have imagined for the celtics team was russell westbrook the year that um kd left right and he he averaged his triple double that was the 16 17 year right yeah they won like i'm gonna say 48 games something like that i think they won 46 yeah maybe it was 48 but they got they won one game in in the playoffs they immediately [40:40] there was that one game in the weekend. [40:42] when he was just awesome in the last three minutes and it was like, all right, fine. You twist my arm. You have it. But, um, [40:48] The point is Jalen could at least be somebody that you could, whether the advanced metric stats loved it or not, he could be the fulcrum of a team that could win in the mid-50s if you put the right types of players around him. I don't know if there's a lot of guys like that in the league. [41:01] I agree. [41:03] By the way, as great as Kawhi was last year, [41:05] the durability thing is just not going to be there with him in the same way. [41:10] You know, and I also wonder... [41:12] I can't remember if I said this before, but if you're playing 71 games and you're going hard in all those games and you're really trying to guard and do all the stuff that Jalen was trying to do. [41:21] You're not going to be 100% for all of those games. Right. Right. [41:25] Whereas like the [41:26] We've seen some guys where they can play the 55 to 58 games and take a couple breaks during the season. [41:33] Look at Paul George. Paul George took 25 games off, came back. He was 21 a game the last 10 games of the season. Then he was really good in the playoffs.

[41:41] Partly because he took 25 games off in the middle of the season. So, um... [41:46] I will never understand why they didn't wait. [41:48] And I think I'm more confused by the advanced metrics than I was before this trade. [41:53] Because I don't really have an explanation for how they're worse when – [41:58] when he plays and they were better when he was off the court. And I think it's an advanced... [42:03] analytics team that was like, this is... [42:06] This is multiple years now where this has been the case. [42:09] What multiple years, though? Just saying regular season. The years they were making it to the Eastern Conference Finals, the years they were making it to the NBA Finals. There's some alchemy there. There's something about the chemistry experiment that's producing more good results than not good. These far runs deep into the playoffs with him as the second most important player, and it's fine casting him that way. That tells me a lot about his import to the situation. [42:39] like a TV show. [42:41] where it's like, this is ER season eight, [42:44] We don't really need to pay our number two lead $60 million anywhere. [42:48] We can get some other actress and bring her in and basically get the same ratings. [42:54] What's your reasonable forecast for the Celtics this upcoming season? [42:59] Oh, I'd be shocked if they weren't in the mid-50s again. I think FanDuel has them... [43:03] Minus 135 for the 50 plus. There's more injury risks this year with the team. There's 49 and a half on FanDuel and it's not minus 135 to the over.

[43:12] Oh, it was four days ago. 50 plus wins was minus 135, so that's different. [43:18] I'm going to try and pull it up here super quick. They have the Celtics. They opened up. FanDuel opened up. They put 10 teams out with... With the actual over-unders? With over-unders. And the Celtics are at 49.5. And I guarantee you the over is not minus 135 at the moment. Well, the thing is... [43:35] Mitch, [43:36] Assuming Mitch can play 60 games... [43:39] And played 25 minutes a game, 20 to 25 minutes a game. He's so much better. 60 is a lot of games for Mitchell Robinson. I get it. But he's just way better than what they had last year with Garza and Vucevic. Could not agree more. That's why I thought they should have kept Jalen Brown. And then Tatum is in the Jalen Brown spot. [43:58] And has been a first team all NBA guy four times. So you'd figure there are at least a little bit about him. [44:04] They lose Simons and replace him with Paul George. And then you have Hugo's a year older and Shireman's a year older. [44:11] More Pritchard shots, less minutes for White, so he can be a little more efficient. [44:15] And I don't understand why they wouldn't at least be a... [44:19] 54 to 55 win team. [44:22] For the regular season. That's why. They have more injury risk than they did last year. Yeah. No question. They sure do. They sure do. [44:29] Mitch, Paul George. [44:31] Right. But the thing is, couldn't they play Paul George... [44:35] 45 games? Oh, so it's the exact same price. It's minus 135. I got it wrong. Boston at winning 50 is still at minus 135. And the over is over 49 and a half. That's what fans will set it for. Is it minus 135? So that's it. I mean, I would think about the 55 for that.

[44:52] Because he figured Detroit's worse. [44:55] We'll see. Philly will be better. East is tough. [44:58] There's only one team that took a step backwards, in my opinion, and that's Detroit. The Pacers are going to be playing to win this season. The Wizards are playing to win. Now, that doesn't translate, but I don't think Charlotte is worse. I like what they did in terms of their machinations this offseason. I like what they did long term, but for the season itself, we'll see. Well, we'll see. I like Orlando this upcoming season with a functioning head coach. And if Franz Wagner can play 60 games. [45:26] Well, but look, I mean, you know, they were forecasted to have over 50 wins last season. You would think Atlanta would be a little bit better. Right. The East is tough. The East is going to be a bitch. There's only three teams that suck. [45:37] I gotta say, the single funniest thing to me about the Jalen... [45:41] and listen, and it's been discussed a little in different places, but [45:46] I think Jalen's [45:48] side and his agent definitely... [45:50] Definitely sabotaged a couple of possible teams. There's no question. [45:54] There's a couple of teams like who? [45:56] I think there were a couple of teams that they were like, yeah, he's not going to be happy if he goes there. [46:01] Name names. I think they were teams that [46:03] Backed off. [46:06] Here's the problem with trading him at this moment now, especially, is there are not a lot of teams that can take on a $57 million contract. Like, it's just under the way this thing works. Yeah, but here's the way this thing works. [46:19] Go ahead. [46:20] Explain to me in a million years why the Brooklyn Nets wouldn't have traded Michael Porter's expiring for...

[46:26] And three of the first they have for Jalen Brown. [46:29] What possible... [46:31] answer do you have for this? [46:33] you are asking for, you know, the, the, the, the solution to the Jesus shroud. This is the functional equivalent. Like, how can you explain? There's like, I'm Joe shot. I'm Joe sign. I call you. [46:47] It's a phenomenon. Yeah, we have a chance to trade. Michael Porter's expiring. A pick down the road. We have like a Houston pick and something else. And we can get Jalen Brown. [46:59] Wouldn't your answer be like, what the fuck are you waiting for? Take the trade before they pull it off. The phenomena in the this is one of those phenomena in the universe that has no explanation. You just have to accept it. It's not like to have another Max guy. You can't even blame like this. Are you saying that Brooklyn put this on the table? [47:20] No, I'm saying Boston thought they had a chance to pull something off with Brooklyn. [47:25] And at some point in the higher levels, I talked about this a week ago, it got squashed. They decided they didn't, they weren't interested in Jalen Brown. [47:32] Which you, oh, okay. I'm saying. Hire us. [47:37] Well, Brooklyn deciding against it makes perfect sense. Why? Because they make no sense whatsoever. Because you can't make any sense out of what Brooklyn is doing. The Knicks just won the title. [47:46] Who am I selling to Nets fans next year? Please come see Brown, our rookie, before he gets hurt. Julius Randle. Here's Julius Randle. If I have Brown and Julius Randle and a bunch of shooting and young guys, at that point, I'm not interesting. Right. But yeah, they turn that down.

[48:03] It's really bad. They don't need more teams. They just need to move that Brooklyn team. [48:08] We're going to take a break and then we got to talk about Joel Embiid. [48:11] This episode is brought to you by State Farm. [48:14] Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip-off, day after day on the same court. [48:21] with the State Farm stanchion right there. That's right. The best players ever. [48:26] Put in the work. And State Farm is the same way with insurance experts who put in the work as well. Whether you get a digital quote, [48:33] or reach out to a local agent. [48:35] State Farm is there to get to know you. [48:37] and help you select the right coverage that fits your life, [48:40] and your budget. [48:42] Putting in the work is what separates the good players from the great, and that's why you want State Farm. [48:46] on your team. [48:47] So get the coverage that's right for you. [48:50] Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary. [48:56] by state. [48:57] This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The World Cup is finally here and the coolest thing right now, FIFA World Cup launch edition on Netflix, a fast and fluid game. [49:06] where your phone is the controller and your TV is the stadium. Play as any of the 48 teams in 16 real-world stadiums, and it's included – [49:14] in your membership. Yeah. [49:16] Go to the games tab on your TV and play FIFA World Cup launch. [49:20] Addition now. [49:21] only. [49:22] on Netflix. [49:23] All right, Joel Embiid. [49:25] 57 million this year, 63 next year, 67. [49:30] in the final year of his deal. I mean, we're doing the worst contracts draft all over. I mean, this whole podcast is Paul George and Joel Embiid. Absolutely amazing. Jalen's 57, 61, and 65, and Maxie's 41, 44, and 46.

[49:45] And the cap's going backwards. This whole thing where the cap went backwards has been, I wish I had been more focused on it heading into the draft in free agency. Like, [49:54] This is nuts. It's $6 million lower than they projected it for this year. [49:58] I think next year it's going to be in double figures. And by the time we get to the last year of the decade, I think it's going to be like $25 million less than they thought. And I remember- So this is the most- Yes, I didn't mean to interrupt. Well, no, it's just when they did the Jalen deal a couple years ago, I was like, whoa. Yeah. [50:15] We had to pay the whole 304 with Tatum too? Like, why'd we do that? And then everybody, and it was just Celtics. Every team was like, [50:22] Cap's going way up. Like... [50:24] It's like that contract in a couple of years. Like, and I remember doing pods about these guys are going to be making 75 million and it's going to be like, they're making money. [50:33] 35 now. Well, [50:35] The cap didn't go out because of all this local TV stuff. And it is one of the reasons I drove the Celtics trade. And if I'm the Sixers, [50:42] And I have $114 million for Embiid and Jalen. And then I also have the Maxi thing going up. Who's the guy I want to build my team around? And I have Vijay Hedgecombe down the road. [50:52] Um, [50:55] It makes me wonder, do I need to have Joel Embiid around? [50:58] I think they're going to trade Joel Embiid house. And I think they want to. [51:02] And I don't care if this gets aggregated. [51:04] I think he's available. I think teams think he's available. And I think Philly has been [51:10] pretty careful about saying, we're so excited to build around Embiid, Jalen, Max, and Vijay. You haven't

[51:17] Really heard a lot of that. I think it beads available. [51:20] And the question for me has... [51:24] Would you trade for Joel Embiid? And if the answer is yes, how much would you give up? [51:30] Would the Wizards trade for Joel Embiid? Pick a team. I'll give you a bunch of them. Yeah, I'll give you the Wizards. That would be Davis for 58.4. It's a straight shoot. I think Philly would have to make a second trade to... [51:43] Do something with the first apron. They'd have to do a couple of cap mechanics, but... [51:48] My guess is Philly would have to throw picks into that trade to get you to take a beat. They sure would. Would you be interested in that? [51:55] No, sir. [51:57] No, thank you. I'm all set. So no, thank you. [52:00] Yeah. [52:00] I like Joel Embiid. [52:03] If you're Milwaukee, would you think about Miles Turner, 26, 28, 29, next three years, and Kuzma's expiring? [52:11] For Joel Embiid? [52:13] To do what? [52:15] Milwaukee stinks. What's the point of adding a guy that plays 40 games a season at 60 million bucks a year? [52:22] So that's a no. [52:24] That's a hard though. Okay. [52:27] They need to stink. If you're Brooklyn, would you think about Michael Porter? Just straight up for Embiid? Who knows? You have to ask. But you're in charge. You're in charge of Brooklyn right now. Oh, I'm in charge. You're in charge of Brooklyn. [52:41] Yes. You would trade Michael Porter's expiring for three years of Embiid. [52:45] No, definitely not. You wouldn't.

[52:47] No, Michael Porter's expiring is worth a lot. [52:53] That's worth a lot. I could have Joel Embiid, the 2023, I think that was the year he won, 2023 MVP on my team. [53:01] How many games is he playing? Who's on my team? Let's say you move to Brooklyn. Who are you going to see in the Nets this year? [53:06] Nobody. Julius Randle? The same as ever. It's the Nets. I'm not going to see the Nets. Here's the one team, I think. [53:14] Dallas. [53:16] Run by Messiah Uharry. [53:19] long, long-standing relationship with Joel Embiid. [53:22] Okay. [53:23] I think would be the one guy [53:26] that would... [53:28] maybe be a little more favorable about rolling the dice of them. And the other thing is they have contracts. [53:35] They have Gafford at 17, 18, 19. [53:38] P.J. Washington 19, 21, 23, and Clay at 17.4. And that can't be the trade. They'd need a third team. [53:45] So you would have to bring Milwaukee into it and send Turner and Kuzma. [53:50] to, uh, [53:51] to Philly, you would have to send and be to Dallas. That's not terrible. Um, [53:56] And then you would have to send the Gafford Clay... [53:59] PJ, you'd need some sort of third team. It'd be something like that. If you were Dallas, would you think about it? [54:06] Now, [54:07] Wrong. [54:08] Player, wrong timeline. [54:11] So the conclusion we've come to is that Philly is going to have Joel Embiid on their team next year. [54:16] So, [54:17] The situation that makes sense for him is,

[54:20] honestly is a team that is very close to winning the, the, the, the title. [54:26] And... [54:27] That team looking at, you know, it would be a Western Conference team to me in the first place. [54:34] And it would be a team that feels like, [54:37] this we can we can bolster. [54:40] our Wemby stopping power with some number of games from Embiid in the playoffs. [54:46] That's what makes sense to me. [54:48] Okay, what's that team? [54:50] Well, the contenders are Minnesota, Denver... [54:53] And Oklahoma City. [54:56] Those would be the teams that I think, you know, have a legit chance. I don't look at anybody else in the West. [55:02] Why not? They, they had a, I'm not doing that if I'm Denver. [55:07] They had Valens Yunus as the backup to Joker. Yeah, but you can't have a 57 million. Denver's out. That Denver's ridiculous. They'd have to trade Jamal Murray for him. I'm talking about... Minnesota, I don't think can because... And you're saying they have to trade Jamal Murray for him. Two giant big guys with no point guard? [55:23] Minnesota. [55:24] I don't think can do anything because of the second apron. I think it's too complicated for them. Even the Gobert bit, they can't. I think it would have to be Gobert. I don't even know if they're allowed to package players. That's another thing that's so stupid about the league right now is these – [55:39] you know, all these restrictions and regulations against being able to trade. Was this the third team you had? [55:45] Shout it, uh... [55:46] San Antonio themselves could acquire him. [55:49] Oklahoma City, though, was the third team. They're not doing that either.

[55:53] Okay. [55:54] It would have to be a team that's like a slightly... [55:57] Slightly desperate, [55:59] I mean, it could be Houston, but Houston doesn't do anything that makes any sense. So they're just going to waste the end of KD. Forget all the teams. [56:08] Would you even consider taking that contract down in a million years? [56:14] Under like desperate kind of circumstances is what you said. [56:17] Can Golden State fit him? Is the expiring Jimmy Butler? [56:21] an option here? [56:23] House. Now we're talking. [56:29] Now we're talking. Yeah, we can get to play. Fuck it. We'll get. They had Embiid. Kirk coached him in the Olympics. [56:37] He played very well for Kerr. He really tried hard for that US team, Embiid did. And you use them as a luxury. The problem is if you're wrong, you've ruined the last bullet in your gun for Curry. [56:49] Golden State's an interesting one, though. Yeah, the bigger point is... What if LeBron's there? What if LeBron helps? The other one is what if Detroit... [56:58] says, yeah, this is actually more interesting to us than a Durant sign-in trade. I don't think they would do that either. Okay. But yeah, there's just not a lot of teams. I don't hate Detroit. I really don't. I don't hate Detroit. [57:10] I do think the idea of Cade and Bede, [57:13] How's that kind of logic? Let me do this exercise in a slightly different way. [57:20] Give me the over-under of games by year and bead plays the next three years.

[57:26] 39 and a half. [57:28] Per year? Oh, you're saying, yes, yes, per year. [57:31] Right. [57:32] So that's one. So his over under was 39 and a half games next season. [57:38] Would you bet over or under? [57:42] Uh, under. [57:44] Yeah, see, this is why Philly's not going to be able to trade Joel Embiid. [57:48] I didn't have to sign into that extension. If the Knicks had lost the title... [57:54] Oh, that's a good one. There's some towns and bead starts to become, but instead it went the other way. But yeah, the next... [58:02] The biggest mistake Daryl made... [58:04] I think of this decade was not selling high in Embiid. [58:09] Much like the Celtics just sold high on Jalen Brown, which I think for different reasons. It wasn't just only the not selling high. It was also the extension that was not called for, was not required. [58:21] He had a murky foot situation. That extension is the most unforgivable extension in all of basketball. All right. So we think Joel Embiid will stay on Philly, even though I don't think they want him to stay. [58:32] I look forward to them being asked this in a press conference. I don't know where this stuff's coming from. We love Joel. We want him back here. [58:41] I think they want to have the team built around Maxine, Vijay, and Jalen Brown. [58:47] And if they could get out that contract, they would. [58:52] I'm Joel Embiid. [58:56] Golden State.

[58:57] Thank you. [58:59] If they could just man it and they'd have Draymond, they'd have Yaxel. [59:04] and Curry and [59:06] basically, and they have Porzingis, right? They'd have a couple of luxuries. And basically the goal would be, can we just patch together a regular season? [59:13] and get into the playoffs as one of the eight seeds. [59:16] and then kind of see how it goes for two months. [59:19] I'm into it. [59:21] I'm into it. It's kind of fun. [59:23] Let's take a spin. Well, the other thing that happened to poor Golden State is, I think they thought they were getting a... [59:30] LeBron and potentially AD, and now it's pretty clear they were being used by leverage as leverage. [59:36] As LeBron goes back. I don't understand what that leverage translates into. Like meaning what? [59:44] Because the teams that are still in the running for him, the Sixers, the Heat, and Cleveland. The Cleveland thing's done. He's going to Cleveland. Okay. Come on. But it has to be. First of all, they hired his buddy, his assistant GM. That was red flag number one. [59:59] Red flag number two was they gave Donovan Mitchell that giant extension for no reason. Do you want to pay Donovan Mitchell $75 billion three years from now? Well, here's the thing. That was the we're paying off Donovan Mitchell so he doesn't get mad when we get LeBron. You're going to be shouting this from the rooftops. We need to tell all the hoops heads out there, all the NBA lovers, it's not just that the salary cap [1:00:22] is going in the wrong direction. The percentage of what Donovan Mitchell's salary represents to Cleveland is going. It's going to be nearly 40% of the cap because of the way that the cap is moving. You're right. If the cap goes, is it any sort of danger going the other way? It's an incredible miss by the people doing the math. At the time, the collective bargaining

[1:00:52] situation, they fucked up how much money is going to be available year over year in a material way. So we are living in an era now, and you've said this, and we just got to keep telling all our hoops head brethren, there are going to be a lot of deals done where it was done for money, not done for basketball reasons, but for salary cap reasons. Two things. Two things. [1:01:17] Two things might flip this. [1:01:19] Let's hear it. [1:01:22] Expansion. [1:01:25] being able to dump [1:01:26] They could make the expansion rules whatever they want. [1:01:29] Okay. Right. They could say you have to take eight, $10 million and up players or however they want to do it, but you might be able to get off one of these guys. [1:01:38] The other thing is, [1:01:40] And I don't know if they can agree. What's the timeline for expansion? Does it marry up with how much time is left on the Embiid contract? [1:01:47] No, the next couple of years are going to be bad. I wonder, could they institute an emergency amnesty clause? [1:01:53] just make that part of like they add a year to the cba you're like we'll add a year to the cba but we we need a couple things back including uh we're gonna bring the amnesty clause back you and i the amnesty clause don't want another year of this cba the players hate this collective bargain agreement well they should you know they should blame themselves because they they uh they had the reps that signed up for it um [1:02:20] The amnesty clause brought us more joy than just about anything.

[1:02:24] It was the Allen Houston. All of it. Just every time they had it, it was so funny to watch teams just – [1:02:31] Just pay people to go away, including your team with the famous Andre Blatch extension, which was my favorite all-time greats. The extension that turned into the Amnesty Clause. [1:02:40] Maybe there's not an Embiid team yet, but [1:02:44] I feel like that's going to be a story. By the way, he's been pretty quiet. [1:02:48] The last couple of weeks, but I, I, [1:02:50] I feel like there's something there with Dallas. You haven't seen a welcome to Philly JB from Embiid yet? Have we seen that? [1:02:57] Maybe he's done it. I don't... I'm not... So you're just... You... [1:03:02] There's no situation where you trade for him unless you were super close to a title and you had a situation like a Jimmy Butler type contract. [1:03:09] A thousand percent. You wouldn't do it like if you're Brooklyn and be like, we have Joel Embiid. We have a star. Come see Joel Embiid. [1:03:15] how many games can you tell your fans he's going to show up and play? [1:03:20] If he only plays 40 games, then come see him for 20 games. [1:03:23] I don't know. How did Philly do it the last five years? [1:03:27] Not well. [1:03:28] Their fans are besides themselves. The counter on Embiid is you could say, I don't know, his knees look actually pretty good. He had all these other weird injuries and things happen that what if he's just healthy? [1:03:40] I'm trying to talk myself into it for somebody. Phoenix was the other one. I couldn't even figure out Phoenix's salary cap. But it just felt like a Phoenix. They would do it. Yeah, it felt like a Phoenix had to move. There'd be no doubt. I mean, the Miles Bridges thing is fucking bananas. Why did they acquire Miles Bridges? Why did they have to do that? Didn't he go to Ishbia's college?

[1:03:58] Yes he did Seems like that could be an explanation [1:04:02] All right. Well, watch... [1:04:04] And beadwatch is on. [1:04:07] We're going to take... [1:04:09] Oh, I had another thing for you. [1:04:12] Um, [1:04:13] Teams that have their own picks in 2027, [1:04:17] We're going to do a mailbag in one second. [1:04:20] As far as I can tell, it's only 11 teams that just have their own pick in a way that we can understand like, oh, they have their own pick. [1:04:28] Sacramento, Memphis, Chicago, Washington, Portland, Orlando, Charlotte, Gold State, Indiana, Boston, and Detroit. [1:04:37] And I think I'm right. Don't hold me to it. But I think those are the 11 teams that... [1:04:42] And then there's a whole bunch of new picks, swaps. Houston has Phoenix's pick. [1:04:48] Memphis has the Lakers. [1:04:51] Brooklyn has the next pick. San Antonio has the Hawks, et cetera, et cetera. [1:04:56] Um, um, [1:04:58] I think they need to... [1:04:59] Add this to the CBA too, along with the amnesty clause. [1:05:03] This is too confusing now. Look at this document I have. [1:05:10] new picks swaps and like this is just a team this is fucking how did we end up here [1:05:16] How did we end up here? There's two double swaps. And I don't even know if this is all right. [1:05:21] um [1:05:22] Like Brooklyn has Philly's pick, I think. [1:05:26] protected one through eight next year, which they're not getting. So I guess it rolls over.

[1:05:30] Clippers have Toronto's pick. The Celtics have this Clippers pick two years from now that might actually be something. [1:05:37] We can't do this. I just can't follow it anymore. The third week of June, 2027, 1 through 30, somebody will be picking. There will be 30 picks in the first round. Who the hell knows? I hate it. [1:05:52] We're going to come back and do a mailbag. [1:05:54] This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? [1:06:04] You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists. So everything's working together toward your goals. [1:06:12] Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner. [1:06:15] Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com. [1:06:24] This episode is brought to you by Holiday Inn by IHG. If I'm ever traveling for work, [1:06:30] Where I stay is so important. [1:06:32] I actually really care about this because sometimes I even have to do a podcast wherever I'm staying. [1:06:37] Um, in general, I don't go on the road that much, but when I go on the road, I'm, I'm, [1:06:41] I like to be in a nice hotel with a nice room. I'm spoiled. [1:06:45] If you sound like me, [1:06:46] Check out Holiday Inn. [1:06:48] It has a whole new energy, especially... [1:06:50] for business travelers. You'll see it everywhere from refresh rooms to reimagined social spaces and dining done right. [1:06:58] with new drinks. [1:06:59] and dishes. And for business, there are flexible spaces that work for the way

[1:07:03] You work. It's a new day. [1:07:06] and a new stay. [1:07:07] Book now. [1:07:08] at HolidayInn.com. [1:07:11] All right. So mailbag questions, you can send them to bspodcast33 at gmail.com. [1:07:16] Actually, speaking of what we were just talking about with Brandon asked about the repeater tax. [1:07:21] Has it run its course? [1:07:24] Teams are treating the second apron as... [1:07:26] a hard cap, can they just remove it? [1:07:29] It was interesting. Stevens mentioned something I had been talking about on my podcast for years. [1:07:34] about how unfair it was that [1:07:37] Tatum and Brown were guys they drafted. [1:07:39] that grew up in Boston. [1:07:41] became star players and then they basically because of the rules couldn't keep both of them [1:07:46] And whether they should have stuff built into... [1:07:49] protected teams and my argument was always like after five years [1:07:53] Maybe you get... [1:07:54] 2% [1:07:55] off per year of the guy's salary for your luxury tax or your cap or whatever. You get some sort of benefit because then that would lead to more stability [1:08:04] and fans knowing that they would have the same guy on the team for more than nine years you're down with [1:08:10] Any of those types of ideas, right? [1:08:12] Of course, yes. You have to persuade the ownership, the group that sits on that side of the table, that this is something that fans want. And so far, they haven't been persuaded. [1:08:23] It hasn't shown up in a collective bargaining agreement yet. [1:08:26] Of course it should make sense. AJ in Toledo says... [1:08:30] The everyone wins penalty would be for the NBA to force Ballmer to swap the Clippers for the Supersonics for free.

[1:08:37] He gets to be the hometown hero in Seattle and run the team. [1:08:42] He leaves behind the Intuit Dome and the Clippers, which they then have expansion for. And you get the LA Clippers and an expansion team. [1:08:50] And that's how everybody saves face. I mean, the more interesting thing about [1:08:55] the bomber penalty and if there's going to be a penalty, any of that stuff is... [1:09:00] They traded Kawhi to Toronto. [1:09:03] Who was the aggrieved party in 2019? Toronto. I mean, the stories are out there about all of the extracurricular stuff that, you know, Kawhi's camp. [1:09:15] was demanding [1:09:17] Yeah. So conspiracy bill are out there. Conspiracy bill tackled this in a mailbag a week and a half ago about, could this be the penalty where they just, [1:09:26] Toronto just gets their [1:09:27] picks back and we call it a day and [1:09:29] But, um... [1:09:31] It is interesting that they've removed... [1:09:34] the one, so they get Kawhi back who apparently loved being there the whole time, even though he fled, like it was the Amityville horror house after that season. Um, [1:09:44] And everybody's just like, yeah, you know, and we're just good. So does this mean we're never getting a verdict or finding out what happened? [1:09:51] Both. [1:09:52] Yes, there'll be a verdict, but finding out what happened, the league is going to say we investigated it extremely thoroughly and we couldn't connect any of the dots that suggest that there was, you know, a knowing situation. [1:10:06] plan by the leadership of the Clippers to deliberately circumvent the salary cap.

[1:10:13] It's a lot of circumstantial evidence. So you're going to say we couldn't connect any of the dots. [1:10:17] This doesn't look good. [1:10:19] The optics aren't great, but there's no direct communication from anybody at Clippers Leadership to Kawhi or to Aspire that says, we're going to try and compensate you, Kawhi. [1:10:33] outside of the rules of the league. [1:10:37] We'll see how it goes. [1:10:39] Jaman from North Carolina wants to know why Phoenix isn't being talked about as a legitimate LeBron destination. [1:10:48] He could be doing the 2021 Chris Paul with Devin Booker. [1:10:52] They have talent, they have flexibility, and more importantly, it's one of the country's best golf destinations. What more could he want? [1:11:00] Intriguing. Here's the thing. Two answers. First of all, [1:11:05] He's going to play golf wherever he wants to play golf on whatever circumstances he wants to play golf. It doesn't – he's not tied to the locale, right? It would be – it's nice to have for the locale to have, you know, some golf courses on the days that he's actually, you know, there for home games. Right, because he's going to be on the road half the season. Yes, yes. And even – [1:11:26] own games, you know, if there's time stretches in the schedule, he can get anywhere. [1:11:30] He has a private jet that will take him anywhere on earth and certainly anywhere within the continental United States to go play golf. [1:11:38] When he finds room in the schedule. And by the way, if he needs a little bit of rest here and there, which certainly makes sense for him and for the team, then go take three days. He doesn't need to play every regular season home game.

[1:11:50] And he won't play every regular season away game. He'll play some number. It probably makes sense for him to play, what do you think, 60 games? Is that the right number? He has every record. [1:12:03] This is why I still feel like, I mean, one of my predictions is already coming true, that he's using the entire month of July to milk this. [1:12:10] and it's worked and everybody with a podcast every TV show has had LeBron segments ESPN seems to write a piece every two days, played brilliantly on that [1:12:21] Um, um, [1:12:23] I still wonder, could he just wait till December, January and just keep this going for six months and kind of wait for week 17 football season to strike? [1:12:31] How many games did he miss at the beginning of the most recently completed season? The first 30? Well, yeah, it was like 20 at least. Yeah, because of the sciatica? I got the sciatica. Got the sciatica. [1:12:45] I gotta say, which is, makes sense. Fine with it. If he called you as his golf conciliary and was like, I'm picking my team. [1:12:54] I have every record and I have four titles. I'm picking my team solely for the golf courses. [1:13:00] What would you tell them? Golden State. It's an all time no brainer. The proximity to the Monterey Peninsula and Cypress Point. That means you get Cypress, you get Pebble, obviously, you get the other bangers right there. Monterey Peninsula Club is super underrated, magnificent. Pasatiempo is within a short drive. And then right there in San Francisco, there is banger after banger. San Francisco Golf Club, the Cal Club where Curry belongs.

[1:13:30] Olympic is there. It's just, you know, there are a dozen of the greatest golf courses that Earth has to offer in that area. [1:13:39] Plus, LA is a short flight. [1:13:42] So he's got all those. He has San Diego in that whole scene. Like, you're in the epicenter. He wants to go spend, you know, 48 hours at Bandon Dunes down at North Bend, Oregon. You know how easy it is to get with a private jet from San Francisco's pitch? Like, dude, you already won four titles. You're already in everybody's top three for eternity. Well, Steph is the one that has to make this pitch. [1:14:12] making the pitch. You're selling out arenas. You're going to get to play golf in every course. Like, what are we doing? Just come to us. [1:14:19] I don't know what it is. [1:14:20] The Cleveland thing, uh, [1:14:24] I don't really understand it. [1:14:26] what do you mean [1:14:29] I don't understand how... [1:14:32] Like if winning is... [1:14:34] the number on priority. [1:14:36] I don't understand how you win a title if you're playing Mitchell, Harden, and LeBron as three of your five guys in four straight playoff series. Why anyone would think that was going to work? [1:14:46] It's a tough one. [1:14:48] I think LeBron has to be in the Harden spot. And the only case I would say, like, why, if he decided it's Cleveland, why it's taking so long is they're trying to figure out a way to get out of the Harden piece of this when they had a wink-wink with him. [1:15:00] I thought they already extended him, didn't they?

[1:15:03] I thought they were... [1:15:05] They're still discussing it. [1:15:06] Yeah, I don't think it's been announced. Well, they said they're working on the extension. Has it not been announced that the extension's completed? I don't know. We've seen teams back out of stuff. The Wink Wink was... Well, that's true. We have seen that. Daryl Morey is a liar, according to some... [1:15:19] That was tough. Poor Daryl Murray. Tough decade. [1:15:25] No, he is not... [1:15:30] The extension's not complete yet. [1:15:33] It is not. There's a lot of could-bes and maybes. Could-be three years, like all kinds of stuff. That's what I saw. [1:15:39] It would be interesting if Harden became the sixth man on the team, like he went back to his 2012 OKC. Yeah. [1:15:47] The problem with Cleveland is Kenny fucking Atkinson. I mean, get grandpa, his smoking pipe and some pudding and let him tell you how many games they won, according to the Ouija board. [1:16:02] Charlie sends in [1:16:04] It's supposed to be eight slices of pie. [1:16:08] for BlamePy. [1:16:09] I always do blame pie. I guess I had three slices in the last one, and he doesn't like that. [1:16:15] - Why? - It's illegal. - Sounds great. - There's no need to have the word pie involved. You don't say, "Sure, I'll have 10% more apple pie "on Thanksgiving, you still have one more slice." [1:16:24] And then he writes, I'm a depressed Celtics fan living in the Bay Area. He wants more explanations. So how many slices can be in a blame pie? At least four?

[1:16:34] Because you can have a four-sliced plain pie. [1:16:36] You could. Yes. But we had eight. [1:16:39] explanations for how the Celtics fucked this up. Did they apologize to their fan base yet? [1:16:45] The Celtics? Yeah. They need to apologize. [1:16:49] I'll say this. [1:16:50] Because there's been some weird stuff going on online and people go, you know, [1:16:56] doing shitty things to Stevens and all that stuff. [1:16:59] Sports. [1:17:00] Anybody that does that stuff, I just don't get it. [1:17:04] You can be mad about a trade, like whatever, but you start going into social media handles and stuff. I just think you've got to take a look at a mirror at that point. I hope. I didn't see any of that stuff. Yeah, it's like shit with Brad Stevens' kids. I denounce all of it. Come on. That's horrendous. Let's keep it in perspective. We won the title in 2024. Settle down. [1:17:23] I didn't like the trade either, but if you're going online to try to attack people, settle down. [1:17:30] Keith Black says... [1:17:32] He thinks the Matt Freese era from the World Cup game is up there with the worst sports plays he's ever seen in his life. And he said his top five are J.R. Smith's finals brain fart. [1:17:42] The Bill Buckner game six error. [1:17:45] The Colts special teams, [1:17:48] play when they put all the guys on the right side and then the snapper got overrun and the punter got tackled. The butt fumble and Chris Webber calling timeout. [1:17:56] um he thinks i should have a bracket with all the worst plays ever that's too mean the bat free play was iconic though yeah and and you have to separate even that list of contenders the stakes were radically different for many of those like like uh the buckner error um is in the same class as freeze because that's that's what was it freeze i don't know how it's kind of freeze freeze whatever however you say it i don't know how to say it was just like a brain fart mistake the the

[1:18:23] The goalie having basically an AYSO error for the third goal that you would see in an under-10 game in North Carolina. I'm still reeling from that. I'm just being in terms of what was at stake and the horrible outcome it produced. Well, except for they weren't going to win that series, and it was game one. And all it produced was them going to overtime. They still could have won that basketball game. The game didn't end on that play. [1:18:53] giving up that goal. The game was over. That was it. What about Wemby whipping it off Castle's back? [1:18:59] Let's go ahead and put that in the list. You can put that in the list. [1:19:04] Um, [1:19:06] The foul was worse. The foul on him fouling Brunson was worse. [1:19:10] AC and DC says the Jalen trade is so interesting because of two elements coexisting. [1:19:18] How lopsided and panicky the trade appears. [1:19:21] how amazing Brad Stevens has been. [1:19:25] to things that don't, [1:19:27] two things that collide. [1:19:30] Well, he's been amazing as an executive. Yeah, I think so. [1:19:33] You like the Vucevic, how that went down? That was a money thing. That was a money thing and then hope. [1:19:39] That was it. That was a money trade. That was not a basketball trade. Again, we have to keep telling the world this because that team was, you know, [1:19:47] Trending in a direction where they knew that Tatum was a possibility. They had to save money or the team was going to have $300 million in taxes, which was unsustainable, apparently. So this is the expectation management that I'm talking about and why they should be apologizing. They should have said out loud that, you know, Jalen, as much as we love him and we'd love to keep him, we're not sure that's going to be possible. They could have said that at any point. They should have said that during the honest thing. They could have said this at any point. I'm still not positive they were that in on Giannis.

[1:20:17] They made one offer. You said that they were... They made one offer. They never made a second one, though. It's so weird. Why? Why didn't they? If you wanted to get a new house in D.C., and you're like, I really like this house, you make an offer. [1:20:30] And then the... [1:20:31] brokers like [1:20:32] Alright, well... [1:20:33] They'll do this instead. And you're like, nope. [1:20:36] I've made my one offer. [1:20:39] Rather not have the house. Usually we can make it off or... [1:20:43] In basketball, that means you're going to make [1:20:45] Another offer. But that's the thing. The Celtics are like, yeah, I'm good with that. I don't want the house. It doesn't make any sense because it cost them Jalen Brown. [1:20:54] Yeah. [1:20:54] Anyway, AC and DC says... [1:20:58] With something like the Luca trade, we could immediately just trash Nico Harrison and not worry too much about eating crow later. [1:21:04] But because of how much [1:21:06] most basketball fans respect Stevens, we have to entertain the thought that maybe we're the asshole here. [1:21:12] Maybe he's far ahead of us on understanding the card cap. [1:21:15] and had to compete with Wemby and OKC and... [1:21:18] Getting rid of Jalen, and then he wonders, has there ever been a bigger self-questioning [1:21:23] Wait, am I the asshole trade in the history of basketball? I did think about this. [1:21:28] Um, [1:21:30] It's probably the Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre trade. [1:21:32] Okay. [1:21:35] Because I think our reaction when that trade happened was, huh, [1:21:40] They almost made the finals last year with Adrian Dantley, and Mark Aguirre seems... [1:21:45] pretty unhappy in Dallas and

[1:21:48] This is a pretty weird trade. [1:21:49] Wonder why they did this. [1:21:51] And then it turned out that won them two titles. [1:21:54] Not saying this is going to turn out the same way. I couldn't think of any other examples, though. How quickly can they trade Paul George? [1:22:03] What are the rules now? How long do they have to hold on to them now? I mean, you can... Some period of time... [1:22:07] Okay, they still, I didn't know if there was, like, if this was one of those trades where you have to sit on him for some period of time before he becomes trade eligible again. I like when New Orleans said they're not trading Trey Murphy. [1:22:17] what are they doing? Trey Murphy's going around everywhere saying like, yeah, I don't know where I'm going. I'm definitely getting traded. Like talk to him. New Orleans and Brooklyn, the two, [1:22:28] most confounding franchises. [1:22:30] Luke Hall in Melbourne. [1:22:32] Australia. [1:22:33] Love Melbourne, Australia. He said, after hearing your list of, oh no, trades on the podcast with Zach, should we start ranking trades for shock factor the same as earthquakes, like on the Richter scale? [1:22:45] The Luka trade would be a 9.5, the largest ever recorded. It's true. You could factor it aftershocks, tsunamis, and more for trade analysis. It's a 9.9. It's a full 10. Yeah, I would argue the Luka trade was a 9.7. [1:22:59] I think it's a 10. That's like the end of civilization. Whatever the highest. Nine was like your whole city's ruined at half. Yeah. [1:23:08] It really was catastrophic until the league fixed the Cooper flag pick. [1:23:14] I think a 10 would be like OKC trading...

[1:23:18] Shay Gilgis Alexander for Kevin Herter, straight up. That'd be a 10. What about the Celtics trading Jalen Brown for Paul George? [1:23:27] And two first round picks. Yeah, what about that? I think it's at least a seven and a half. I would say so. The thing is, we knew they were shopping them. So that's what the Luca trade don't be a shopping. An untradable contract. [1:23:39] We've, we've, you know, much mileage we've gotten off these Paul George contracts the last three years. What was the number one Washington Wizards Richter scale trade? [1:23:47] Goobs? [1:23:49] probably Chris Mitch Richmond for Chris Weber. That was pretty bad. You were so sad. Actually, you know what? No, it's not that it was, uh, we traded Ben Wallace for, [1:24:00] for, hold on, I know this, the guy from Orlando. Oh God, I know his name. [1:24:06] I'm sorry, I can't pull it right now. It was a horrendous, horrendous trade. And Ben Wallace went to Detroit and became a cornerstone, the most important player on multiple contending teams for them. [1:24:18] So, [1:24:20] It was... [1:24:22] Oh. Ike Austin. Ike Austin. Yeah, I knew I could pull it. Tim Legler was in that trade. [1:24:28] legs legs wonder how he feels about it ike austin [1:24:32] I remember I had the Digital City column back then. [1:24:38] But no podcasts. [1:24:40] You were just an occasional character in my column. [1:24:45] I don't think you weighed in on the record on that. But I know from phone calls, you were absolutely furious and upset because you were going to Wizards games and you were like, this guy, Ben Wallace, there's something here.

[1:24:54] And then they traded him for Eck Austin. [1:24:57] God damn it. [1:24:59] All right. Um, [1:25:01] Now that Kyle Lowry is officially retired as a Raptor, I need a ruling. This is from Big Mo in Toronto. [1:25:06] Is Kyle Lowry a Hall of Famer? [1:25:09] Mm. [1:25:10] Six All-Stars. [1:25:11] one NBA champion, Olympic gold. [1:25:14] Um, [1:25:17] He will get a jersey retired here anyway, but we can't control the Hall of Fame. [1:25:20] So as you know, I've been constantly tinkering with this pyramid list that I'll probably die and nobody will even know who was in it. I did have him in the extended honorable mention. [1:25:30] Second best player on a championship team [1:25:33] He did get 13 NBA ones, 2019 playoffs, 15, 5, and 7 in 24 games with all the defense stuff that he did. Yeah. [1:25:42] I wrote down, best love him on your team, hate him if he's on anyone else's team, guy of his era, basically, which is Lambeer, Mahorn, [1:25:49] Bruce Bowen, those kind of guys. He was... [1:25:52] probably the most talented of all those types of players. [1:25:56] And everyone gets into the Hall of Fame. So the answer is he's in. [1:25:59] He's in. That's a great point. Anton Jamison's getting in. [1:26:03] Did Insan Jamison get in? [1:26:05] Are you kidding me? [1:26:06] Yeah, he'll get in. He has 20,000 points. He'll be in. [1:26:10] My goodness. The NBA is something. [1:26:13] Jack M writes, I've heard several takes on how LaMelo will fit with Ant in Minnesota. [1:26:18] But people aren't talking enough about the biggest problem with this trade. LaMelo Ball will be living in Minnesota throughout the winter. The worst driver of our era is going to be driving on snow and ice for four months. This can't end well.

[1:26:29] You're going to have to call Con and Uber and get to Minnesota to protect Ant at all costs. We cannot let him get in an automobile with Lomelo behind the wheel. [1:26:37] Now, people have been joking about this, but it's possible we haven't joked enough about it. [1:26:42] He couldn't handle Charlotte. Charlotte's nice. It should be in his contract that he... Ubers only? Yes. It's not an Uber, just a driver. I think he likes driving, though. He likes driving that crazy giant truck. He's going to drive that giant truck and... [1:26:58] Could be Fargo too. [1:27:00] Um, [1:27:02] Paul from Liverpool, UK. [1:27:06] He said, FAO, conspiracy bill. [1:27:09] My epic new salary cap rules, most talent leagues I've ever had, not enough max salary slots, potentially disgruntled players. [1:27:16] Adam Silver now trying to rush expansion to open up more salaries and more [1:27:21] Max Slotz, what are your thoughts? [1:27:24] Hmm. [1:27:24] I don't think they're related. [1:27:26] Yes. It did make me think that. [1:27:28] I tended to agree with you. You think that the expansion will open up this, the cap that the cap will increase because of the expansion. [1:27:37] The cap won't increase. [1:27:39] the ability to take [1:27:41] 24 players and move them around. [1:27:46] and give some cap relief. [1:27:48] And then if you're an expansion team, like if Indeed's unprotected. Yeah. Yeah. [1:27:52] The last year of his deal. Let's say they started in 27, 28. Or 28. That's why I asked you. Let's say they started in 28, 29. [1:27:59] If you're Vegas, do you make Embiid like one of your first picks in the expansion? Because you get Joel Embiid for a year.

[1:28:04] Right. [1:28:05] Okay, I get it. [1:28:06] XF Ramirez in New York says, why is no one in the media discussing just how terrible the Pelicans rebuild is going? Is it a retool, a repoop? You tell me. Trey Murphy is still on this team. Why exactly? [1:28:19] Missy is suddenly feverishly untouchable. [1:28:22] Derek Queen, [1:28:24] He's untouchable. Herb Jones... [1:28:27] They're letting content with just letting them rot away in a smoothie-coated hellhole. [1:28:31] And what in the ever loving fuck is Zion Williamson still doing there? [1:28:34] From the outside, it looks less like a plan and more like someone forgot to hit simulate on the rebuild. What are they doing? What is this theme? I don't know. [1:28:41] Well, he forgot one. [1:28:43] Didn't they just hire Jamal Mosley to be the head coach? They did. He's hot. He's coming off a seven-game playoff series. Well, he's hot because he was sitting on a goddamn hot seat for the entirety of that Orlando season. It's hot for the seat. It's an inferno. [1:29:00] Yeah, so they have— They have in Brooklyn. I have no fucking idea what they're doing. Dumars, when he traded McCollum's expiring for two years of Jordan Poole, one of my favorite underrated bad trades of the decade. Bless up. Bless up, Joe Dumars. [1:29:13] They have Murphy... [1:29:15] Herb Jones, [1:29:17] They did not have the number one pick this year, of course. They still have Murray. [1:29:23] I don't know. I don't know what they're doing. That's a team... [1:29:28] Who was it? Willie Green was the head coach? Yeah. It was just two years ago, and they were on pace to win nearly 50 games. Of course, Zion got hurt. But there was a case to be made for Willie Green, like –

[1:29:40] He was quietly taking a lot of that talent. [1:29:43] And here we are with them once again. They have some sort of [1:29:48] Some sort of swap with Milwaukee that I've just... [1:29:53] Yeah, they have valuable because Milwaukee is going to stink stink. [1:29:59] it's either 27 or 20. I don't know. There's been so many things. I have this document with all the draft picks and I don't even know what's right anymore, but they have a swap with, uh, [1:30:11] apparently with New Orleans and Milwaukee where – [1:30:15] New Orleans gets the best of those two picks. [1:30:18] but that, [1:30:19] Yeah, that's right. I have that correct. [1:30:23] So that's not bad. [1:30:25] The bucks might not be good. [1:30:27] They are not going to be good. [1:30:29] Um, [1:30:30] All right, a couple more. [1:30:34] Watching Obsessed. This is from Craig from Durham, North Carolina. [1:30:38] Watching Obsession, did you see Obsession? [1:30:40] I didn't. [1:30:44] Sign me up. You should. You can pay-per-view it on wherever. [1:30:49] Okay. [1:30:50] Watching Obsession got me thinking about Kevin Durant, [1:30:53] His career has all the telltale signs of a poorly worded wish coming true. That's the [1:30:58] Focus of obsession. That's the guy makes a wish. It goes badly. All right. After being eliminated in 2016, Durant made a wish that probably sounded something like [1:31:07] I wish I was part of the best team of all time. He then got his chance.

[1:31:12] Unfortunately, after that, numerous injuries, foot on the line. [1:31:15] sabotaged a couple of teams, never got the respect he wanted. That's an interesting analogy. [1:31:20] He did get what he wanted. That 2017 Warriors team was, I think, the best team of this century. [1:31:27] It's either them or the Oman Lakers in the finals. Who do you have in that? [1:31:31] The Warriors. [1:31:33] back to back finals MVP, right? [1:31:39] Didn't he get it both years? Yeah. Patrick wants to know if, um, yeah. Is Jalen Brown replaced cat now is this generation's 90, 10 guy. [1:31:48] Whereas 90% is good, but everybody dwells in the 10%. And he said... [1:31:53] My other choice was Cat, but I think he washed himself of his sins with the last postseason. I think that's true. [1:31:59] I agree. So Jalen, that was that Westbrook column I wrote in 2012 about [1:32:04] Everybody has 10%. That's not great. And some guys, it's more glaring than others. And Russell Westbrooks was always the most glaring. And that's a little bit like what Jalen's like. Cal from Ottawa. [1:32:14] He said, after watching Argentina scrape by Egypt, got me thinking about Messi and his relationship with his teammates. I think he has to be the number one most loved teammate of all time. [1:32:25] Who else would you add to the list? [1:32:27] Steph, etc. etc. He goes, [1:32:31] For basketball, [1:32:33] I think Steph and Duncan and Nash. I'm glad you had Duncan. I agree with Duncan as well. I think for the last 25 years. And it seems like Brunson might be pretty close.

[1:32:43] Yeah. Okay, good, good. Like that. Like that direction. [1:32:47] And then going backwards, I think Russell is probably the all-time example of this. Jerry West was another good one. [1:32:53] Bill Walton when he was healthy. Wasn't Magic beloved? And Magic. Magic, you know, he did get a coach fired there. [1:33:00] He did get Norm Nixon traded. I don't think it was perfect, but I think everybody loved to have magic on their team. [1:33:07] um [1:33:11] David B. from the Bay Area was listening to me talk to Zach about how I thought they needed a third card in soccer. [1:33:20] Um, [1:33:21] in. [1:33:23] Gaelic football and hurling. Oh. [1:33:26] In Ireland? Yeah. [1:33:28] They have similar yellow and red cards soccer, but they also have a black card that works like a power play. [1:33:33] Oh, if you get a black card, you're out of the game for 10 minutes and your team's at a disadvantage and then you come back. Oh, I like this. I started to think about how this could apply to the NBA and other sports. You get technical foul. You're out for two minutes. Your team plays five on four. [1:33:49] I got to say, I did think about it a little bit. I think for soccer, like the Balogun red card... [1:33:54] If they had just given him the black card instead, he's just out for 15 minutes and you have to play... [1:33:59] one man down and then he comes back. I like that more than just [1:34:03] this like do or die with the way it is now. My complaint with the Balogun red card was the, the next game. Like I, even if he had set out the remainder of the game in which he'd committed that foul, I,

[1:34:16] I could have kind of understood that, but kicking him out for the next game. He was a game and a half. [1:34:22] It was like the Wemby Elbow. Who did Wemby Elbow? [1:34:28] Nas Reed. Nas Reed. He had to leave that game in the first half. And then if he also missed the next game, that's like you basically missed two games. That was possible because we wondered whether he was going to get a suspension. And there was some discussion at the time around whether or not, you know, the league would win. [1:34:46] Step up that way. [1:34:47] Daniel from Toronto wants to know, are the Raptors Forrest Gump and his Kawhi Jenny? [1:34:53] Thank you. [1:34:54] They unconditionally and deeply love the person, but they walk out on you, cheat on you, dabble in rotten, sketchy behavior when it all goes to shit. [1:35:01] Whisper Sweet Nothing, so you take them back and provide a net of safety and support for their final chapter. I guess Forrest Jr. is the 2019 title. [1:35:10] You don't want to guess what he said aspiration was. But I do like the analogy of Jenny Gump as Kawhi. [1:35:20] It's pretty good. The problem is... I love you, Jenny. This next chapter of him in Toronto is not going to go well. Well, yeah, it ended with them getting married and her dying. Well, this is Jenny with AIDS. Right. She died. Yeah. For AIDS. [1:35:37] Check. [1:35:37] Jake's never confirmed. We did a whole thing at the Forest Cup. We think it was probably, yeah. I was there for that pod. It was Washington, D.C. Jake Steiner said, if I could bet on when LeBron James plays his last professional game of basketball,

[1:35:52] What would the odds be for him to retire in 2028? [1:35:56] but after the Summer Olympics gold medal game. [1:35:59] Oh. [1:36:03] Interesting. [1:36:06] Two more years, plays for the Olympic team. [1:36:10] Does the last year is the farewell tour and then the Olympics is the last moment. [1:36:16] The question is, do you want 43-year-old LeBron James involved in our gold medal game? [1:36:21] This is going to be the greatest Olympics basketball of all time. [1:36:24] Wow. [1:36:25] This could be a house gets divorced movie. [1:36:27] Olympics. I don't know how you don't come out for all the basketball for like two and a half weeks. Let's start with that. [1:36:34] I mean... [1:36:35] There's ways to do that and stay married, I feel like. Okay, good. That was a good answer. [1:36:41] but wow, [1:36:44] I do love the idea of LeBron having something to do with that team. I really do love it. [1:36:50] Um, [1:36:50] Huge fan of the pod. This is from Darren. [1:36:53] I'm a diehard, miserable Mets and Nets fan. As a Mets fan, there's a Jalen Brown comp staring us in the face. Pete Alonzo. [1:37:00] consistently one of the top RBI guys in the league. The metric geeks all think he's not worth the big money and Mets let him go. Paid all these other guys. [1:37:07] All of them got hurt in this time and can't do what Pete did at the plate or on the field. The only thing that makes this comp perfect is that the Celtics shit the bed. [1:37:14] Please note David Stern would have made this Jalen Brown trade in a heartbeat. That made me feel worse. [1:37:19] Just no question Wait what does that mean David Stern would have made the Jalen Brown trade He's the Mets guy

[1:37:27] Yeah. Oh, saying like as the Pete Alonzo. Oh, um, [1:37:33] Dan Fahey from the North End thinks that sliding doors for the whole Celtics trading JB saga, [1:37:39] Is not Tatum getting the Achilles injury? [1:37:42] But poor Zynga's getting the mystery illness. [1:37:44] Okay. In the second half of 2025, which led to them not being able to beat the Knicks. Right. And then Tatum getting hurt in game four. Okay. And if Porzingis is healthy, maybe less minutes on Tatum. And maybe that is the thing we should point to. There's something to this theory. I do like it. [1:38:03] Andy, well, there's a couple more quick ones. Andy from QC.com. [1:38:08] I forgot to mention this to you before the draft. Andy, QC. Where's QC? QC Philippines. [1:38:14] Oh, phenomenal. Hello, Philippines. [1:38:16] He wants to know why we didn't make the DeBantza-Lambayas connection. And ironically, AJ was the one that made it. [1:38:24] I don't see it. I don't feel like they're... I don't see the comparison. But body-wise, I see it. [1:38:30] Yeah. [1:38:31] The way they present, I'll say this with no disrespect intended in any way, shape or form towards my guy, AJ. Bias was a much more physical player. [1:38:43] And he could bully guys. We didn't see that version. AJ might grow into his body and get there. But, I mean, Bias was a beast on the block. He was capable of creating advantage out of his sheer physicality. And AJ, again, he's not there yet. It's so funny that he was both our favorite college players, but we didn't know each other yet.

[1:39:08] and you had even bigger ties to him because it was Maryland I was going to games at Cole Fieldhouse at the University of Maryland it's a top 5 NBA would have it's a brutal [1:39:21] Alex wants to know, he said, is basketball group chats having the following conversation? [1:39:25] How many years would Seth Curry have to play to be considered the better Curry brother, like from right now? [1:39:31] Um, assuming he means his dad maintains his Dallas level splits. [1:39:35] 11 points a game, 43%, three points. How many years have played before the sheer overwhelming numbers of his career become unassailable? 40 more years? [1:39:44] If he was hooping at 85, does he not become the best curry? How do these people come up with these? It's amazing. [1:39:52] I was going to say poor Seth Curry. Fuck that. He's had an incredible run. Yeah, I still think he'd have to go to 85. [1:40:00] Jay from Halifax, Nova Scotia said, the Big Fondue was a great Wemby name, but can't believe we didn't go with the Choc Monchor. Yeah, I saw the Choc Monchor was out there. I saw that. I enjoyed it. Sacre bleu. [1:40:13] All right, two more and then we're done. [1:40:15] From Chance in Oregon. [1:40:17] Your segment explaining Truck Robinson and World Be Free in a recent meal bag was my favorite five minutes of the pod this year. [1:40:23] As a millennial NBA junkie, it's hard to get the proper sense of good but perhaps not great players for previous eras. You can piece together YouTube, Wikipedia, basketball reference. Please make this a regular segment. [1:40:34] He lists a whole bunch of guys. He said, so many dudes. I'm on the cusp of understanding their careers. Pick a guy each week you find fascinating. First guy he mentioned was Gus Williams.

[1:40:43] And I'm happy to do 90 seconds on Gus Williams with you right now. 1979 champs, best guy on the team. [1:40:49] I have him as the unofficial playoff MVP for 1979. 26.7 points a game in the playoffs that year. He was fifth MVP in 82. [1:41:00] Um, [1:41:01] He was all NBA once. [1:41:03] Second team on Bay once, third team twice. [1:41:06] He played in the 78 finals, best guy on that team, 79 championship, 80 Eastern Conference finals, and held out. [1:41:13] in the 80-81 season, which I talked about in my book, [1:41:17] He had an agent named Howard Slusher. [1:41:19] Who held them out? [1:41:20] Um, [1:41:21] because he was underpaid, [1:41:23] And, um, [1:41:25] and basically cost him a really important year of his prime. He was the best point guard in the league house from 1978 to 1982. [1:41:33] Thank you. [1:41:34] It's a five-year span, and then magic took it. Yeah, and then magic took the torch. Lost to history because this was the lowest... [1:41:42] point in the history of the league, right? In terms of its exposure, it's the place that it occupied, the league occupied, and the American consciousness. So Gus Williams really lost to history. When you say a guy that averaged, what did you say? 26.7 for the playoffs. No threes. There are no threes in the NBA. Look at the scores of those basketball games and think [1:42:12] And he was an incredible long range shooter. Like he would have been awesome with the three point line.

[1:42:22] Yeah, he was... [1:42:23] And then the next year, he was 24 a game in 15 playoff games. That team... [1:42:28] was Portland should have been the best team of that era. And then Wong got hurt. And then Seattle basically was, and they couldn't, [1:42:35] The real problem is Dennis Johnson. [1:42:37] who I loved, obviously, but I think was a little prickly. Gus Williams. There's that. It turned into a little bit of a worse version of the Jalen Jason thing. [1:42:46] Then I'm trading Dennis Johnson and Phoenix for Paul Westphal. [1:42:50] who plays that one year and then gets hurt. And then Gus ends up eventually on your team for two years, Washington. [1:42:56] I remember. But wasn't really the same version of himself at that point. But. [1:43:02] Yeah, I think he was the best point guard in the league for a five-year stretch, which ain't nothing. And the games weren't on. [1:43:10] I think he's somebody, he was... [1:43:11] He was a classic bald guy with a beard, almost looked like an actor, could dunk on dudes, would do the thing where he would go... [1:43:19] hard to the basket and wait for the big guy to come challenge it and kind of wait a second and then dunk on the guy. [1:43:25] I loved his game. He was one of my favorite. Good basketball cards. Was really never on TV unless they were in the playoffs, though. That's the point. I don't think they showed Seattle ever. [1:43:35] That era that you just mentioned when we think of him as the best point guard in the league, he had 49.5%, 48.2%, 48.6%, 47.7%. From the field, this fucking guy, that's a bucket. That's a bucket right there. He's really good. He was fast. There was always like, those were the...

[1:43:55] Point guards that are kind of have gone away now, those John Lucas, Norm Nixon, Gus Williams, like these Kevin Porter, these fast guys who know how to run a team. [1:44:07] That's a great one. [1:44:09] Who is our closest in modern basketball? [1:44:12] Like right now? [1:44:13] Yeah, because I... [1:44:15] It's not Brunson. I don't think we have those guys. I mean, it's a scorer. [1:44:20] Yeah, I would say, because these guys, the impetus is more to score, but like, [1:44:24] I feel like somebody like Acuff could be like that, but it's like it's the interests are more for him to shoot. [1:44:30] Right. [1:44:31] But I'm going to think on this. [1:44:34] Who's our modern equivalent of Gus Johnson? [1:44:37] Gus Williams. [1:44:38] Williams. Yeah, he Dennis Johnson. [1:44:41] He was like a prototype, though, for those shooting point guards, basically. [1:44:45] He was never like a high-assist guy. Anyway, I loved him. Go check out his YouTube. Last question for Brandon Richter. [1:44:51] He said, "20 years ago in the mailbag, I wrote to you about instances in which day drinking before 10 a.m. is acceptable." And he attached the image. [1:45:00] Okay. [1:45:01] Um, [1:45:04] from my old page two column. Yeah, he made it. Um, [1:45:09] And he said, today, the day before the Knicks first ever ticker tape parade, [1:45:14] I email you wondering if you need to update the list. [1:45:17] Because this seems like a reasonable excuse for early morning beverage. I've been saving this email for you because nobody loves day drinking more than Joe House. Especially morning drinking. So when I answered this in 2005...

[1:45:29] Thank you. [1:45:30] I said, here's my official when it's okay to drink before 10 a.m. list. [1:45:35] Great. [1:45:36] while attending football tailgates, college reunions, or the Boston Marathon. [1:45:41] Okay. Three winners. Yeah, good. During your final two weeks of college, [1:45:46] For sure. Absolutely. Because you're proud. There are many instances where you haven't gone to bed. You're just drinking because you're drinking. I'm not going to bed. I just stay up. Oh, look, it's sun. That's a sunrise. Oh, let's toast to that. [1:45:59] during any Vegas trip or bachelor party or guys-only golf outing, [1:46:04] A lot of time where you lose track of time. The sun goes down, the sun comes back up. If you pulled an all-nighter and haven't left the strip club yet, [1:46:14] That's in there. Again, this is 2005 me. Sorry, I apologize in advance. Before any wedding that starts at 1 p.m. earlier, [1:46:22] Anytime your in-laws are visiting... [1:46:24] Any morning when it's below 10 degrees. This is a good one. I don't know how I came up with this. Big list. If you're dating an actress and just attended a movie premiere during which she had a graphic sex scene with someone on a 50-foot movie screen. [1:46:38] In 2005, who could that have been? I don't know how I came up with that. While living in any town in Canada that's farther than 75 miles from Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, or Vancouver. [1:46:50] Um, if you've been writing for a late night talk show for more than two years, I think that was a joke about writing for Jimmy's show. [1:46:56] If your name is Jack Nicholson, [1:46:59] Before your fantasy football draft, if you're trying to get the ball rolling so some of your other buddies get plastered. I actually used to do this. There's always one guy who got married too soon and falls for it.

[1:47:09] Yeah. [1:47:09] And then I have a mean Vin Baker joke that I'm not going to repeat because he actually had issues. I was way meaner in 2005. What are the other reasons that I didn't put in there? [1:47:18] Well, you touched on it briefly. You said the... [1:47:21] um ticker tape the but well the ticker tape parade goes in but really many rounds of golf many many many rounds of golf like you know like a bloody mary on the golf course or a bloody mary as you head over to the first tee that that's a pretty tried and true staple like that that really um lands for sure uh i had two more that as we got older i thought of [1:47:48] And both involve Bloody Marys. [1:47:50] Good. Because I wasn't really a Bloody Mary guy in my early mid-30s. [1:47:55] Um, [1:47:56] The Bloody Mary the next day when you're hungover... [1:47:59] Yeah. [1:48:00] I just think is important and somewhat life-changing. And I think you might've even introduced me to it. You are my wife. You're good. Two sub suspects. Yep. [1:48:09] And then on the plane... [1:48:11] Oh, the great call. The morning call. [1:48:14] I didn't sleep enough last night. I just want to have one drink to get me a little bit more tired. [1:48:20] So I can sleep a little bit. Nice little Bloody Mary, and then I get a little sleepy. Or it's the rev up to, I'm going to this destination. I want to be loose. [1:48:29] I'm going to start drinking now. The 6 a.m. flight to Vegas, cross country, and you start drinking on the flight at like 10.30. I'm on vacation. Vacation starts when my ass is in the plane seat. Can I bring you some champagne? Yes, you can. Well, there's also better alcohol now that

[1:48:46] They have like, my daughter drinks this, uh, [1:48:49] I forget what it's called, but it's bottles and it's iced tea and lemonade with something in it. There's a lot of those out there. Yeah, she likes one of them. High Noon, Surfside. Surfside is terrific. Yeah, Surfside. That's what she likes. Surfside is very good. [1:49:01] But people have those and they feel like they're not drinking, but they're actually drinking. [1:49:05] Yeah, they're definitely drinking. [1:49:08] definitely nice one of those over a cup of ice that's a drink that i'll drink on the golf course at 8 45 in the morning oh i've just played seven holes let me get a drink [1:49:18] Most of your day drinking revolves around golf. That's a true story. Yes. Before the round, during the round, and after the round. I don't understand how you're able to play golf when you have drinks in you. [1:49:30] I mean, first of all, I suck. So that's one piece of it. But is there a point where you feel like you're getting better and then you get worse? [1:49:39] Uh, sometimes it does create a, you know, the, the, the taking the pressure off, whatever you're, you're sort of feeling about your game up to that point. There's an element of that to it. And I mean, everything's within moderation. Let's, let's be real. I'm not, I'm not out there, um, you know, trying to make walking up the 18th fairway shit face. That's not the goal. [1:50:01] Well, plus it's hot. You got to be careful. You got to be careful. Don't want to end up, you know, having the ambulance come to the Mexican restaurant patio because I was out there for five hours drinking a dozen high noons. Trying to avoid that. Trying to avoid that. Forgot about that one.

[1:50:18] Have you been enjoying betting the World Cup? [1:50:22] I mean, we have – I'm going to knock on wood. I don't want to say. I have been enjoying it. We've been pretty good. I'll just leave it at that. I was doing great, and then I let my heart carry me with U.S. versus Belgium. Did you not hedge out of that? I should have hedged it. I didn't. You didn't hedge that 24 to 1? Did you tell America that you had a 24 to 1 ticket, a four-leg parlay, and the first three legs hit? Yeah. [1:50:52] it was spain was the third leg right and then you were set up for a perfect one in regular time amazing hedge it would have been a giant i thought it was bad karma this is why i'm stupid but this is why i'm stupid oh my god man freaking usa soccer i'm sorry no such thing as bad karma they they stink um they put a 38 year old dude with a man bun this is the thing i'm not gonna go do the rant i do understand where everybody's coming from in terms of the rebuttals to the idea that [1:51:22] athletes yeah we'd be better and then there's a lot of rebuttal there's a different thing to it the skill set developing the skill set i do feel like i asked this on the pod this week where where would you put tim rehm in terms of american athletes right now i'll give you the over under 5 000 fucking athletes in the united states of america yeah is this is this guy uh

[1:51:52] because... [1:51:53] I don't think he probably even deep down wonders why he's the sweeper when he's 38 years old. He's 38 years old and he was our best guy to be one of our three guys who we have back to stop all bad things that can happen against the best countries in the world. So this is the problem when guys say, well, there's a fair rebuttal, like the skill set that gets developed, whatever. This dude's 38 freaking years old. He's a big man, but the 6'4 guy from Belgium just jumped over him. [1:52:23] Like what? Well, the other issue is [1:52:25] I went back, I was going through, I was bummed out after we lost, I was going through the 2002, the run they had. [1:52:31] - Yeah. - Where they beat Mexico and then Mexico started cheap shotting everybody in the last 50. It's unbelievable. One guy has like a flying headbutt, like he's in blood sport. Vasquez gets kicked out. But then we lose to Germany. [1:52:42] on a handball play. [1:52:44] We lose 1-0. [1:52:46] We actually score a goal that hits the German guy's arm and they don't call it. It would have been called a goal now with the VAR. We lose one nothing. But that was... [1:52:57] When we talk about best American teams, that's clearly the best team we've had. That team was actually like... [1:53:02] going toe-to-toe. But when you think about the reasons they're going toe-to-toe, they had a bunch of tough motherfuckers in that team. And that's what, when I think about the World Cup, I've been watching all these other teams, how feisty everybody is now. There's a nasty side to these things. Did you feel like we had a nasty side? Because I didn't see that at all. We have some great, tough athletes, I think. But do we have nasty dudes? Freeman, who do you want to be nasty? I'm just saying we need to send our team to nasty camp

[1:53:32] Thank you. [1:53:33] Because all these other teams, they're pulling arms. They're pulling jerseys. They're throwing elbows. They're starting shit. So this is the challenge, right? This is the physicality you're describing. We've seen this. This is why there's this instinct to go to, what if we got our better athletes out there? It's not the athletes. It's not the athletes. It's the style. It's my eyes. When my eyes see Christian Pulisic fall down every time somebody touches him, I've seen – [1:54:03] watching fucking football. I've been watching college football. These guys don't get tipped over. They don't get knocked off the ball. Jalen Brunson got knocked out and he just gets up. And he's like this tough little dude. And also can't get really knocked off the ball. There's plenty of physicality and he can't get knocked off of it. That dude dusts [1:54:21] The fuck is that guy? [1:54:22] Well, I was thinking... [1:54:25] The 2022 finals that we went to those games, Warriors-Celtics. And the Warriors basically big boyed the Celtics and the Celtics kind of didn't know how to fight back and got pushed around and all. That's kind of what the U.S. is like in the World Cup every four years. Feels like these teams, Belgium big boyed us. [1:54:42] you know, [1:54:43] And Trump danced us in the locker room after the game like that. [1:54:47] So I got it. It's not just a Tim Ream. Obviously, they had some holes. There was... [1:54:52] you know, some speed on the sides and then can we, can we get an awesome, [1:54:58] somebody who's a stopper. I mean, upon reflection, I mean, [1:55:02] we were sort of lulled into a misunderstanding around what this team's true caliber, potential, the true outcome. Yeah, when you hear people like the Bundo and CR and these people that watch Premier League and La Liga,

[1:55:19] And all these dudes on these other teams have all these guys that – [1:55:23] Like that number 10 on Belgium who's on Arsenal and is awesome. I don't watch a lot of Arsenal. But they have all these dudes who have been in just big games all year. [1:55:31] Right. And... [1:55:32] Our guys, you know, so I don't know. There was a little bit of an optical illusion. I still enjoyed the ride. I had a great time. Really fun. Enjoyed it. But yeah, it's it's this is probably where we're going to max out all the time around around the 16th. [1:55:46] Maybe so. Unless we get some dust with it. [1:55:48] I'm only interested once every four years. Good luck with DeBonson and Peterson. Big night tonight. I hope your guy shows up. [1:55:56] He's going to show up. Peterson's going to look awesome. Everybody get prepared for that. I'll talk to you this week. [1:56:03] Thanks, buddy. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo. As always, don't forget Ali, Rewatchables. That is up. She's the one and Hitch are the next two coming. And I will see you at some point on Sunday live on Netflix. Enjoy the rest of the week. [1:56:33] Hold on. [1:56:34] We start. [1:56:36] So [1:56:37] Never. [1:56:39] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE.

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